Hello everyone!

[parkjunwoo]

Hello everyone!
I'm excited to join the OAUP community. I've been exploring the fascinating concepts behind OAUP, especially the dynamics of transapients, Archai, and the logical foundations underpinning ultra-advanced civilizations. Recently, I've been thinking about how cooperation and trust could serve as critical missing links within the OAUP universe, possibly enabled through something I call "legal computation" or "Vystem."
I'm looking forward to sharing my thoughts, hearing your feedback, and engaging in thoughtful discussions. Thanks for having me!

[Drashner1]

Hello - Welcome to OA!

Please feel free to join in on any discussions that grab your interest or to start new ones if there's something you would like to discuss that we aren't currently talking about. Please also feel free to ask questions if you have any questions or concerns about the setting or the wider OA project (although we generally recommend checking the EG first to see if an answer might already exist there).

Hope this helps and once again, welcome to OA!

Todd

[Drashner1]

Hello everyone!
I'm excited to join the OAUP community. I've been exploring the fascinating concepts behind OAUP, especially the dynamics of transapients, Archai, and the logical foundations underpinning ultra-advanced civilizations. Recently, I've been thinking about how cooperation and trust could serve as critical missing links within the OAUP universe, possibly enabled through something I call "legal computation" or "Vystem."
I'm looking forward to sharing my thoughts, hearing your feedback, and engaging in thoughtful discussions. Thanks for having me!

Hm. Cooperation and trust already exist to a degree and in some circumstances within the setting (as do their opposites). What makes you think they are either missing or critical?

It's not really clear what you're suggesting here. Can you explain further, please?

Todd

[parkjunwoo]

Hello - Welcome to OA!

Please feel free to join in on any discussions that grab your interest or to start new ones if there's something you would like to discuss that we aren't currently talking about. Please also feel free to ask questions if you have any questions or concerns about the setting or the wider OA project (although we generally recommend checking the EG first to see if an answer might already exist there).

Hope this helps and once again, welcome to OA!

Todd

Thanks for the thoughtful feedback! I completely agree that, at first glance, the idea of removing intent or emotion from law seems oversimplified—indeed, for baseline humans, it would be unrealistic.
However, I'm exploring this concept specifically in the context of highly advanced OAUP societies—particularly those dominated by transapients and Archai, where subjective intent can be seamlessly replaced by precise and verifiable data.
The concept I'm introducing, "Vystem," isn’t about scarce physical resources—since in the OAUP universe, those are abundant—but rather about intangible assets like intellectual contributions, creativity, or problem-solving capacity. Cooperation and trust would therefore revolve around collaborative knowledge creation and efficient use of cognitive resources, not material goods.
In reading through the OAUP timeline (2000-2900), I noticed the absence of explicit explanations for how early chaotic phases evolved into stable, conflict-free civilizations, especially regarding the establishment of deep trust and cooperation among highly capable intelligences.
My idea is simply proposing one possible solution: a computationally verifiable system of cooperation (Vystem) that could plausibly explain how sophisticated societies and entities within OAUP could have emerged and stabilized without resorting to destructive competition.
I appreciate your thoughtful feedback—it’s helping me refine the idea to fit better with OAUP’s established worldbuilding. I'd love to explore further how we might integrate these ideas into the existing lore in a compatible way.

[MiyuwiAuthor]

Hi! Hope you enjoy your time here! ^.^

[Worldtree]

Hello everyone!
I'm excited to join the OAUP community. I've been exploring the fascinating concepts behind OAUP, especially the dynamics of transapients, Archai, and the logical foundations underpinning ultra-advanced civilizations. Recently, I've been thinking about how cooperation and trust could serve as critical missing links within the OAUP universe, possibly enabled through something I call "legal computation" or "Vystem."
I'm looking forward to sharing my thoughts, hearing your feedback, and engaging in thoughtful discussions. Thanks for having me!

Welcome! we've talked a bit about this together on discord , but here on the forum i will list some more resources. 

Here are some  articles related to the ideas you are interested in: 

Trust Networks
https://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/629b747d1aaf0


This topic article lists many other articles about law in OA: 

Law and Jurisprudence (honestly I bet half these articles are outdated and could be updated with some of our more modern ideas after 20 years)
https://www.orionsarm.com/eg-topic/45bcf9f415f16

[parkjunwoo]

Let's start with a new star system, as I promised on Discord. Above, I just answered.

[Worldtree]

here are some essays i had read a while ago about writing laws as code... and some of the problems with that approach.

this is obviously a very complex philosophical and political problem which people are dealing with around the world right now. and this will likely evolve over the next centuries or millenia.. in real life and within the OA setting , presumably.

and since i am neither a lawyer nor a professional software engineer, I won't pretend to understand these topics in depth, beyond the words in the essays.

These essays articulate many of the concerns i have with the approach you might be describing in v-system. - that "Code is Law" and "laws can be implemented as code and be perfect and logical and can be universally executed..
so perhaps reading through these will give inspiration for how v-system could go wrong..
like in many science fiction stories, you say "here is a technology and it works this way... but what happens when it goes wrong??" then drama happens

https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2021/09...ood-thing/
https://dtinit.org/blog/2023/08/01/law-isnt-code

https://www.geeklawblog.com/2024/12/when...-code.html

OA is science fiction of course so it's quite possible you could write about v-system implemented in OA.. but i imagine there are a wide variety of problems and barriers you could describe in the worldbuilding too..

[parkjunwoo]

here are some essays i had read a while ago about writing laws as code... and some of the problems with that approach.

this is obviously a very complex philosophical and political problem which people are dealing with around the world right now. and this will likely evolve over the next centuries  or millenia.. in real life and within the OA setting , presumably.

and since i am neither a lawyer nor a professional software engineer, I won't pretend to understand these topics in depth, beyond the words in the essays.

These essays articulate many of the concerns i have with the approach you might be describing in v-system. - that "Code is Law" and "laws can be implemented as code and be perfect and logical and can be universally executed..
so perhaps reading through these will give inspiration for how v-system could go wrong..
like in many science fiction stories, you say "here is a technology and it works this way... but what happens when it goes wrong??" then drama happens

https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2021/09...ood-thing/
https://dtinit.org/blog/2023/08/01/law-isnt-code

https://www.geeklawblog.com/2024/12/when...-code.html

OA is science fiction of course so it's quite possible you could write about v-system implemented in OA.. but i imagine there are a wide variety of problems and barriers you could describe in the worldbuilding too..

I completely agree with your point that turning laws into pure code presents enormous philosophical and practical challenges, and I appreciate you sharing these essays. I've also encountered some similar arguments and discussions about the complexity and potential pitfalls of the "Code is Law" approach.
However, I also believe our current legal systems around the world are already deeply flawed and often unjust—subject to ambiguity, human bias, and inconsistency. My thinking is that, even though encoding laws into logical systems might introduce new types of errors, it could ultimately offer us the crucial advantage of clarity, transparency, and predictability.
Most importantly, by removing irreversible or severe penalties and instead focusing on reparative and corrective measures, we can create opportunities to identify and correct mistakes when they inevitably occur. In other words, rather than pursuing a perfect, error-free legal code—which I agree is impossible—we can instead design a system built around graceful failure and correction, a more forgiving and adaptable legal infrastructure.
In the end, I think the drama you mention—"what happens when it goes wrong?"—is exactly what makes this idea fascinating from a storytelling and philosophical standpoint. I'm excited to explore precisely those questions, and I'm open to learning from your perspectives and experiences as well.
Thanks again for the thoughtful feedback, and I look forward to discussing and refining these concepts further with everyone here.