02-07-2020, 11:07 PM
Rynn makes excellent points. Building on what he's already said...
Per the OA timeline, the first S6 minds didn't arise until 6000AT or so. So the S6 didn't have anything to do with the VW. Note also that - while the war was a big deal to those involved - it was not a very big deal when considered against the entire scope of the civilization at the time. Also, it isn't at all clear that the highest archai of the time had any real concerns about the war and it's considered entirely possible that they engineered it for their own reasons such as manipulating Terragen civ to a direction more to their liking.
This doesn't disallow your basic idea, which (as Rynn says) is quite workable on general principles, but it does mean that the background for the war is more complex than it being a simple conflict between the ruling archai via their proxies. It is as likely that it was the equivalent of a cockfight or even a game between them.
I wouldn't get overly hung up on sophonts, especially high transapients, needing help from each other, either on general principles or in terms of ascension/transcension. First because Terragen civilization is not like our civilization. Second because transapients are not 'human beings with a few extra gadgets'. They are entities beyond human comprehension and whatever their equivalent of a civilization looks like and what it does for them may look nothing like any civilization humans would create or even be able to understand (try explaining credit default swaps to a flatworm sometime.).
Humans in RL require a supporting civilization to survive and thrive. There is much less need for that - at least in material terms -among Terragens given their level of personal capability (due to genetic engineering and cybernetic augmentation) and the power of the technology they wield. In the case of even low transapients both of these things increase by orders of magnitude. Their concern is not really about how to survive in the wild, but ensuring they don't eliminate the wild through their own carelessness.
There's are also the facts that:
a) At some point or other all new S-levels had to ascend or transcend to that level without anyone else of that level around.
b) Due to light speed limitations, there is only so much that can/could be done to provide support (whatever that looks like) in many cases.
Yet civilization survives anyway.
Meta-empire actually has a distinct meaning in the OA setting already, but that's a fairly minor issue we can discuss later.
Speaking more generally, how is what you're describing significantly different from the other empires already in the setting? You seem to be making a point of saying that this civilization is different or unique in some or many ways from the rest of Terragen civilization, but I'm not really seeing that from the description provided so far. Can you help me understand better, please?
Reactionless drives are a very rare thing, even in Y11k and require at least an S4 mind to create. At the point in the timeline where you are having this start from there were even fewer S4 archai and even fewer reactionless drives around. So a bunch of modosophonts and low transapients getting an entire fleet of reactionless drive ships is very unlikely and probably the biggest technical issue I'm seeing with this besides the issues Rynn has already covered with trying to get out ahead of the Terragens colonization wave for any length of time.
Related to the colonization wave - the part of space that was 'the edge of the Terragen Bubble' back around the time of the Version War is thousands of light-years deep inside that bubble by 10,600 AT (the 'present day' in Orion's Arm). So - as Rynn points out - they would need to travel for much further (and longer) than mere hundreds of light-years to get ahead of the wave and stay isolated for any length of time.
I think the biggest single bit of feedback I'd provide at this point is to put less focus on trying to create what amounts to an S6 level empire - able to play on an equal footing with the Sephirotic empires, either individually or even as a whole - right out of the gate. This kind of thing - in various forms - seems to be a common impulse with people wanting to make their first contribution(s) to the project and it rarely (almost never)... works out well.
We are far more likely to be positively impressed by something complex, original, different, and well done - even if it's much smaller than an entire empire - then an alternative that aims for sheer size, but sacrifices the above factors as a result. There is also the practical matter that the OA setting is the result of a lot of different people working together over many many years - and I'm not sure that any single person can match the results of that right out of the gate.
Not trying to attack you or your project at all - and we're happy to help as we can to produce the best addition to the setting that can be had - but I feel it's better to lay out these issues up front than tap dance around them. Based on experience, that also never works out well.
Hope this helps,
Todd
(02-07-2020, 05:45 PM)SolarRider Wrote: Thank you guys for welcoming me and taking your time to answer my questions. I asked these questions because they relate to the project that I’ve been envisioning. So the project is about like I mentioned a Isolate terragen civilization, run by a SI:6 Archai. The civilization originated from terragen Modosophonts refugees and transaps/lower archais who became disillusioned with the warring SI:6s during the version war. The ruling SI:6 of my civilization (Eir is an SI:4 at the time) is the one who lead and organize a fleet of refugees away from the Civilized Galaxy to establish E own civilization
Per the OA timeline, the first S6 minds didn't arise until 6000AT or so. So the S6 didn't have anything to do with the VW. Note also that - while the war was a big deal to those involved - it was not a very big deal when considered against the entire scope of the civilization at the time. Also, it isn't at all clear that the highest archai of the time had any real concerns about the war and it's considered entirely possible that they engineered it for their own reasons such as manipulating Terragen civ to a direction more to their liking.
This doesn't disallow your basic idea, which (as Rynn says) is quite workable on general principles, but it does mean that the background for the war is more complex than it being a simple conflict between the ruling archai via their proxies. It is as likely that it was the equivalent of a cockfight or even a game between them.
(02-07-2020, 05:45 PM)SolarRider Wrote: Note: originally I was planning to keep my ruling Archai a SI:5 instead of a 6 because of the fact that E is isolate with its subject without any equal or higher Archai around to contact for help.
I am also considering to start my Archai as a Si:4 and maybe ascend E to SI:5 but like you guys mentioned it can be difficult for an Archai to leave its empire and also it very risky for a Transap/Archai to ascend which the risk of failure get bigger the higher toposophic level it is especially when it’s done independently.
I wouldn't get overly hung up on sophonts, especially high transapients, needing help from each other, either on general principles or in terms of ascension/transcension. First because Terragen civilization is not like our civilization. Second because transapients are not 'human beings with a few extra gadgets'. They are entities beyond human comprehension and whatever their equivalent of a civilization looks like and what it does for them may look nothing like any civilization humans would create or even be able to understand (try explaining credit default swaps to a flatworm sometime.).
Humans in RL require a supporting civilization to survive and thrive. There is much less need for that - at least in material terms -among Terragens given their level of personal capability (due to genetic engineering and cybernetic augmentation) and the power of the technology they wield. In the case of even low transapients both of these things increase by orders of magnitude. Their concern is not really about how to survive in the wild, but ensuring they don't eliminate the wild through their own carelessness.
There's are also the facts that:
a) At some point or other all new S-levels had to ascend or transcend to that level without anyone else of that level around.
b) Due to light speed limitations, there is only so much that can/could be done to provide support (whatever that looks like) in many cases.
Yet civilization survives anyway.
(02-07-2020, 05:45 PM)SolarRider Wrote: So I plan the Isolate Civ to be its own “sphere”. Basically a Meta-empire(don’t know a better term to apply) that has multiple smaller meta-empire and policies within, ruled by Sophont of all S levels with nearly complete autonomy. The most powerful meta-empires are ruled by Archais that are a S level less than the ruling Archai. I also plan the civ to have its own unique and diverse cultures and clades that has evolved independently from the Main Terragen Sphere (foundation being the cultures that existed before and during the version war prior to the beginning of my civ’s exodus) as well as some variants of existing cultures/clades from the main sphere. As for reasoning of why the ruling Archai want to create a civilization separate or far away from the civilized galaxy. E wants a “sandbox” of it own, E doesn’t want to share it with other Archai of equal power to eirs. Think of it as creating your own virtual world like for example a Minecraft world in creative mode (I’m a huge gamer btw so expect gaming references) but self-subtaining and evolving.
A god sim where you overview your followers/subject and their daily life as they create kingdoms, wage war, trade with each other, form new religion/ ideology, etc. but rarely intervene only when necessary. My Civ will evolve independently with minimal intervention from the ruling Archai. Ofc my ruling Archai will have a presence but it’s barely felt since most of the Civ ( about 95%) is controlled by the major empires with ruling SI:4 or SI:5 archais. There will also be some rules implemented by the ruling Archai despite it being a sandbox for eir subjects, such prohibiting ascension or transcension to the equal S level as the ruling Archai as it can lead to a power struggle, and anything concerning destructive behavior from any Transap/Archai. The Civ will have very isolationist stance until lifting it at a time close to 11k.
Meta-empire actually has a distinct meaning in the OA setting already, but that's a fairly minor issue we can discuss later.
Speaking more generally, how is what you're describing significantly different from the other empires already in the setting? You seem to be making a point of saying that this civilization is different or unique in some or many ways from the rest of Terragen civilization, but I'm not really seeing that from the description provided so far. Can you help me understand better, please?
(02-07-2020, 05:45 PM)SolarRider Wrote: As for the Journey and the size of the area which the Civ is located. My plan is that the exodus fleet meet up at Sagittarius Sphere where they beginning their journey coreward. The ships will be equipped with Reactionless drives(displacement drives if the ruling Archai is a SI:4 or halo drives if a SI:5). Now my Civ will be 1000 ly diameter with the first colonized system being at the center so the area will have 500 ly radius. This mean they just need to travel 700ly-800ly to reach their destination if ofc the Civ is certainly 200-300ly away from the periphery. Now the time span of the journey could be from 777 years if traveling at 90% C to up to 707 years if traveling at 99% C without any pit stop to fuel up the ship drives. Due to not trying to break Causality or laws of physics, the trip should take a good 800 to 900 year range, including the pit stops needed ofc and that gives my Civ a huge amount of time to grow and expand. I will be honest I don’t know much so much about the requirements and conditions need to use some tech in the OA universe so definitely correct me if I made a mistake.
Reactionless drives are a very rare thing, even in Y11k and require at least an S4 mind to create. At the point in the timeline where you are having this start from there were even fewer S4 archai and even fewer reactionless drives around. So a bunch of modosophonts and low transapients getting an entire fleet of reactionless drive ships is very unlikely and probably the biggest technical issue I'm seeing with this besides the issues Rynn has already covered with trying to get out ahead of the Terragens colonization wave for any length of time.
Related to the colonization wave - the part of space that was 'the edge of the Terragen Bubble' back around the time of the Version War is thousands of light-years deep inside that bubble by 10,600 AT (the 'present day' in Orion's Arm). So - as Rynn points out - they would need to travel for much further (and longer) than mere hundreds of light-years to get ahead of the wave and stay isolated for any length of time.
(02-07-2020, 05:45 PM)SolarRider Wrote: Let me know any suggestions or feedback you might have about my project. I am trying to be original as possible with this project so feel free to give me an advice on what should I do differently. I’m happy you guys are taking your time to my idea and I hope you like it
I think the biggest single bit of feedback I'd provide at this point is to put less focus on trying to create what amounts to an S6 level empire - able to play on an equal footing with the Sephirotic empires, either individually or even as a whole - right out of the gate. This kind of thing - in various forms - seems to be a common impulse with people wanting to make their first contribution(s) to the project and it rarely (almost never)... works out well.
We are far more likely to be positively impressed by something complex, original, different, and well done - even if it's much smaller than an entire empire - then an alternative that aims for sheer size, but sacrifices the above factors as a result. There is also the practical matter that the OA setting is the result of a lot of different people working together over many many years - and I'm not sure that any single person can match the results of that right out of the gate.
Not trying to attack you or your project at all - and we're happy to help as we can to produce the best addition to the setting that can be had - but I feel it's better to lay out these issues up front than tap dance around them. Based on experience, that also never works out well.
Hope this helps,
Todd