Stand at Carpo (Revised)

[Drashner1]

Starting to review this - thoughts and comments below...

______________________________________________________________________

Stand at Carpo
By Future Historian/Ace009 and Thewolvesden
“Gentlemen, the situation’s started to become more desperate than it already was.” an old man in Ganyrstrovian, a dialect of Russian, said through the holoscreen. “The Gaians have already deployed reinforcements to assist their remaining troops in the Jovian system, and we’ve been suspecting of this for the past two months.”

Is this some random old man? When you say 'an old man' it sort of gives that impression. Also, and as mentioned before, how or why is the language or dialect that is being used relevant? Is 'Ganyrstrovian' a real language or a made up language for this story/your setting?

The first sentence is also grammatically incorrect. As written it makes it sound like the old man is inside something called 'Ganyrstrovian'.

'Suspecting of this' is also grammatically incorrect. The correct way of saying is would be 'as we've suspected for the past two months.'

“Agreed” spoke another, younger man in the operation centre. “And we have only confirmed it three days ago, when the task force began deceleration burn.”


“Any destinations that we’re looking at?”


“We’ve been able to accurately locate it within the past month, and they’re heading to reinforce Callisto. However, we do have a plan to intercept the hostile fleet and cripple or destroy it.”

If they've only been suspecting the Gaians were coming for two months, and confirmed it three days ago, how could they then have a confirmed destination for a suspected fleet a month ago? And why did they then wait so long to have this meeting?

“And what exactly is this ‘plan’?” The officer zoomed onto Jupiter and the board displayed a map of the Jovian system and pointed to a tiny moon called Carpo.


“See that tiny speck? Carpo, it’s called. That moon is where we’ll intercept and defeat the task force. A conventional Hohmann transfer isn’t an option, so we may have to do with a Brachistochrone Transfer. We can intercept them in about nine days.”

Firstly, you have the officer who is asking what the plan is focusing in on Carpo before he even gets an answer. How does he know that this plan will involve Carpo before he is even told?

Second, if he already knows about Carpo, why is the other person telling him to look at it.?

Third (and as I mentioned before) - if they can't do a Hohmann transfer, how can there be an uncertainly about having to do a continuous boost trip? What other options are there? Also, it is not grammatically correct to capitalize Brachistochrone Transfer. Hohmann transfers are named after a person, the other is not.

Finally, it is not a given that they will defeat the incoming task force. They may be able to say they will engage it there, but apparently they are facing a superior force, so treating victory as a foregone conclusion seems silly.

This better work. It has to. For Ganyrstrovia, and for the Solar System.

Who or what is a Ganyrstrovia? How is the reader supposed to know what this is? And who is thinking this? You don't either of the characters here so it is in no way clear who you are talking about at this point.

“Good. Any available task forces in the area?” the old man asked before him.

If they've just said that they are going to intercept the incoming force at a location in space, wouldn't it be fairly obvious they must have a task force in the area? And what does that even mean in a volume of space as comparatively small as the environs of Jupiter?

“We do have one, sir. It’s very small task force, but they’re one of the best. Task Force 12. It currently has six functioning SDVs, two of each type. This means drone carriers, SOVs and SDeVs.”


This better be worth it.

Alphabet soup that tells the reader nothing. What do all the letters mean? And who is thinking it had better be worth it? How is the reader supposed to tell this?

“I doubt that your plan could work, but I suppose we have no other option. Marshall Makhrov, I am authorising your plan, although I will mention that your plan is risky and dangerous. The probability of success might depend on twelve.”

The word 'plan' is used three times in two sentences, which is about two times too many. Also, what is the plan that is so doubtful? At this point the reader has only been told that a small task force will intercept the incoming force in the vicinity of the moon Carpo. What are the details of the plan that make it risky and dangerous? And if it is so risky/dangerous, why aren't they trying to come up with a better plan?


“Thank you, Planetary Marshall. I’ll commence preparations effective immediately.” Marshall Makhrov replied calmly as the Planetary Marshall shut off his holoscreen.

***
The BKK Drakon Smerti, and 5 other spacecraft: the BKK Ognennyy Shar, the BKK Zhnets, the BKK Adskyi Ogoni, the BKK Sila Yupitera, and the BKK Ruka Svaroga, had already been en route to Carpo for over 4 days when the planning of the actual battle was being reviewed onboard the BKK Drakon Smerti.

As mentioned in my earlier post, there is no reason to include 'BKK' for every ship name. Also, what does 'BKK' stand for?

Why are they only starting to plan the battle now? What were they doing for the four days leading up to this point.

The craft was massive, but tiny compared to even a small naval craft from Earth, with two habitat modules spinning around the craft. Each of the modules would rotate twice every minute, which would fold into the craft when it accelerates and with the spacecraft itself powered by a fusion reactor. The craft had a nuclear pulse inertial confinement fusion drive, a cluster of three nuclear thermal engines, and was equipped with several coilguns to strike a hostile craft on its horizontal and vertical sides, two for each side. It also had 4 primary radiators capable of being concealed in the battlefield. Between the engines and the reactor there was a Bubble Membrane Radiator, which was a spherical-like object that spun on itself as the craft moved and boiled liquid metal to radiate waste heat.

Various points here:

1) You are essentially contradicting yourself in the first sentence. Small naval craft are not that big, so if the ship is 'tiny' compared to one of them, it is going to be quite small indeed.

2) If it has spinning modules, that sets a lower limit to the size of the craft to avoid Coriolis effects being so strong that they disorient or incapacitate the crew.

3) The description of the spacecraft is jumbled and confusing. You switch from past to present tense a couple of times.

4) There is no up or down in space, so how can the ship have horizontal or vertical sides?

5) Why and how would it detach and conceal its radiators on a 'battlefield' consisting of open space? What is the point of this and how could the ship keep functioning if it no longer has heat radiators?

6) If the ship has four main radiators, why does it need the bubble membrane radiator? Why is that radiator so important that it is capitalized and described more than the others? Why do I as the reader need to care about this radiator?

It was an example of a typical Glushko-class SOV from the early 24th Century, but this Glushko-class SOV had been manufactured with its internal systems upgraded to fit the technology of 2394, and with the replacement of outdated parts and pieces in the internal components of the craft.

What does 'SOV' stand for?

If the ship was manufactured in 2394, with upgraded parts, how could it simultaneously have outdated parts replaced?

Still, it was a very impressive SOV compared to the SDeVs and drone carriers, all retrofitted Heavy Planetary Transportation Vehicles or HPTVs for short, and the low gravity (by Earth standards) generated by the spin habitats was not a concern to its thirty-man crew, genetically engineered to the lower gravity of Ganymede, not even to Commander Yuri Mikhailovich Torapev.

Since we have no idea what an SDeV or drone carrier are, or any particulars about their design, the first sentence really tells the reader nothing.

This is also all one extremely long sentence. You need to break it up into several smaller sentences.

Why is the commander picked out as being special in regards to his concern about the ships spin gravity? For that matter, why is the spin gravity mentioned as a concern for the crew (or not) at all?

Finally, have you run the numbers on what the gravity is from the spin? That is impacted by the size of the ship to some degree, btw.

Toparev was still sleeping in the Commander’s Quarters when Chief Exo Officer Voloshyn knocked on the door to wake him.

Why 'still sleeping'? Was he supposed to be up and his alarm didn't go off? Suggest just saying he was asleep in his quarters.

Ok, I think that covers enough for now. Will pick this up again later, as time permits.

Todd

[Ace009]

Well, that we tried in the first edition. Look how well that ended.

It's been a while since you posted the earlier versions of the story to the forum, so I went back and took a look at them.

If you mean this version of the story and my response to it (in Post #3), I said that it was a good start, but that it still needed work. I did not say that it wasn't working or that it needed to be removed from the story.

I also then posted feedback on the rest of the story, but it doesn't appear that you responded to any of it, at least in that thread. If there is another thread where you did respond and I've just missed it, please point me at it.

EDIT: Something that might be helpful would be for you to post a brief summary of what this conflict is about and who the principle combatants are. That might help in putting together a fictional 'excerpt from a book' to introduce the story.

Thanks!

Todd

Oh.......well, NOW I get it. I can do the excerpts with ease. The remainder might be more of a problem (for me, at least). And the acronyms and some jargon are in the Google Docs version. So.........

[Ace009]

Starting to review this - thoughts and comments below...

______________________________________________________________________

Stand at Carpo
By Future Historian/Ace009 and Thewolvesden
“Gentlemen, the situation’s started to become more desperate than it already was.” an old man in Ganyrstrovian, a dialect of Russian, said through the holoscreen. “The Gaians have already deployed reinforcements to assist their remaining troops in the Jovian system, and we’ve been suspecting of this for the past two months.”

Is this some random old man? When you say 'an old man' it sort of gives that impression. Also, and as mentioned before, how or why is the language or dialect that is being used relevant? Is 'Ganyrstrovian' a real language or a made up language for this story/your setting?

The first sentence is also grammatically incorrect. As written it makes it sound like the old man is inside something called 'Ganyrstrovian'.

'Suspecting of this' is also grammatically incorrect. The correct way of saying is would be 'as we've suspected for the past two months.'

“Agreed” spoke another, younger man in the operation centre. “And we have only confirmed it three days ago, when the task force began deceleration burn.”


“Any destinations that we’re looking at?”


“We’ve been able to accurately locate it within the past month, and they’re heading to reinforce Callisto. However, we do have a plan to intercept the hostile fleet and cripple or destroy it.”

If they've only been suspecting the Gaians were coming for two months, and confirmed it three days ago, how could they then have a confirmed destination for a suspected fleet a month ago? And why did they then wait so long to have this meeting?

“And what exactly is this ‘plan’?” The officer zoomed onto Jupiter and the board displayed a map of the Jovian system and pointed to a tiny moon called Carpo.


“See that tiny speck? Carpo, it’s called. That moon is where we’ll intercept and defeat the task force. A conventional Hohmann transfer isn’t an option, so we may have to do with a Brachistochrone Transfer. We can intercept them in about nine days.”

Firstly, you have the officer who is asking what the plan is focusing in on Carpo before he even gets an answer. How does he know that this plan will involve Carpo before he is even told?

Second, if he already knows about Carpo, why is the other person telling him to look at it.?

Third (and as I mentioned before) - if they can't do a Hohmann transfer, how can there be an uncertainly about having to do a continuous boost trip? What other options are there? Also, it is not grammatically correct to capitalize Brachistochrone Transfer. Hohmann transfers are named after a person, the other is not.

Finally, it is not a given that they will defeat the incoming task force. They may be able to say they will engage it there, but apparently they are facing a superior force, so treating victory as a foregone conclusion seems silly.

This better work. It has to. For Ganyrstrovia, and for the Solar System.

Who or what is a Ganyrstrovia? How is the reader supposed to know what this is? And who is thinking this? You don't either of the characters here so it is in no way clear who you are talking about at this point.

“Good. Any available task forces in the area?” the old man asked before him.

If they've just said that they are going to intercept the incoming force at a location in space, wouldn't it be fairly obvious they must have a task force in the area? And what does that even mean in a volume of space as comparatively small as the environs of Jupiter?

“We do have one, sir. It’s very small task force, but they’re one of the best. Task Force 12. It currently has six functioning SDVs, two of each type. This means drone carriers, SOVs and SDeVs.”


This better be worth it.

Alphabet soup that tells the reader nothing. What do all the letters mean? And who is thinking it had better be worth it? How is the reader supposed to tell this?

“I doubt that your plan could work, but I suppose we have no other option. Marshall Makhrov, I am authorising your plan, although I will mention that your plan is risky and dangerous. The probability of success might depend on twelve.”

The word 'plan' is used three times in two sentences, which is about two times too many. Also, what is the plan that is so doubtful? At this point the reader has only been told that a small task force will intercept the incoming force in the vicinity of the moon Carpo. What are the details of the plan that make it risky and dangerous? And if it is so risky/dangerous, why aren't they trying to come up with a better plan?


“Thank you, Planetary Marshall. I’ll commence preparations effective immediately.” Marshall Makhrov replied calmly as the Planetary Marshall shut off his holoscreen.

***
The BKK Drakon Smerti, and 5 other spacecraft: the BKK Ognennyy Shar, the BKK Zhnets, the BKK Adskyi Ogoni, the BKK Sila Yupitera, and the BKK Ruka Svaroga, had already been en route to Carpo for over 4 days when the planning of the actual battle was being reviewed onboard the BKK Drakon Smerti.

As mentioned in my earlier post, there is no reason to include 'BKK' for every ship name. Also, what does 'BKK' stand for?

Why are they only starting to plan the battle now? What were they doing for the four days leading up to this point.

The craft was massive, but tiny compared to even a small naval craft from Earth, with two habitat modules spinning around the craft. Each of the modules would rotate twice every minute, which would fold into the craft when it accelerates and with the spacecraft itself powered by a fusion reactor. The craft had a nuclear pulse inertial confinement fusion drive, a cluster of three nuclear thermal engines, and was equipped with several coilguns to strike a hostile craft on its horizontal and vertical sides, two for each side. It also had 4 primary radiators capable of being concealed in the battlefield. Between the engines and the reactor there was a Bubble Membrane Radiator, which was a spherical-like object that spun on itself as the craft moved and boiled liquid metal to radiate waste heat.

Various points here:

1) You are essentially contradicting yourself in the first sentence. Small naval craft are not that big, so if the ship is 'tiny' compared to one of them, it is going to be quite small indeed.

2) If it has spinning modules, that sets a lower limit to the size of the craft to avoid Coriolis effects being so strong that they disorient or incapacitate the crew.

3) The description of the spacecraft is jumbled and confusing. You switch from past to present tense a couple of times.

4) There is no up or down in space, so how can the ship have horizontal or vertical sides?

5) Why and how would it detach and conceal its radiators on a 'battlefield' consisting of open space? What is the point of this and how could the ship keep functioning if it no longer has heat radiators?

6) If the ship has four main radiators, why does it need the bubble membrane radiator? Why is that radiator so important that it is capitalized and described more than the others? Why do I as the reader need to care about this radiator?

It was an example of a typical Glushko-class SOV from the early 24th Century, but this Glushko-class SOV had been manufactured with its internal systems upgraded to fit the technology of 2394, and with the replacement of outdated parts and pieces in the internal components of the craft.

What does 'SOV' stand for?

If the ship was manufactured in 2394, with upgraded parts, how could it simultaneously have outdated parts replaced?

Still, it was a very impressive SOV compared to the SDeVs and drone carriers, all retrofitted Heavy Planetary Transportation Vehicles or HPTVs for short, and the low gravity (by Earth standards) generated by the spin habitats was not a concern to its thirty-man crew, genetically engineered to the lower gravity of Ganymede, not even to Commander Yuri Mikhailovich Torapev.

Since we have no idea what an SDeV or drone carrier are, or any particulars about their design, the first sentence really tells the reader nothing.

This is also all one extremely long sentence. You need to break it up into several smaller sentences.

Why is the commander picked out as being special in regards to his concern about the ships spin gravity? For that matter, why is the spin gravity mentioned as a concern for the crew (or not) at all?

Finally, have you run the numbers on what the gravity is from the spin? That is impacted by the size of the ship to some degree, btw.

Toparev was still sleeping in the Commander’s Quarters when Chief Exo Officer Voloshyn knocked on the door to wake him.

Why 'still sleeping'? Was he supposed to be up and his alarm didn't go off? Suggest just saying he was asleep in his quarters.

Ok, I think that covers enough for now. Will pick this up again later, as time permits.

Todd

O_O Oh my......... *gulps*

[Drashner1]

Dude - don't be intimidated or discouraged by my commentary. I really am trying to help - and many/most of these issues can be fixed with a relatively small amount of tweaking (seriously).

The first step when addressing any problem is to figure out the size and scope (how big is the elephant, really) and then figure out how to attack it best.

We're just in the first stage yet.

Todd

[Ace009]

Dude - don't be intimidated or discouraged by my commentary. I really am trying to help - and many/most of these issues can be fixed with a relatively small amount of tweaking (seriously).

The first step when addressing any problem is to figure out the size and scope (how big is the elephant, really) and then figure out how to attack it best.

We're just in the first stage yet.

Todd

Oh.

[Ace009]

So, if you want, I can link the Google Docs version. Acronyms are all in there (and jargon).

https://docs.google.com/document/d/13YgM...DDqXc/edit

[Ace009]

NOTE: I also posted a Space Force organisation and ranking system, albeit I originally posted it on Reddit.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/15az7...Mj92w/edit

[Drashner1]

Hm. That helps a bit - but I'm not sure it's the best approach to have a short story with so many footnotes or a technical glossary that is 20% of the entire combined length.

Hard SF stories do sometimes come with glossaries and technical appendices and such. But I've only every seen them in full length novels - maybe a novella (but that's rare).

I'd suggest that it would still work better to try to get work in as many definitions and such into the story itself - particularly if you're aiming for this to be published in something like Analog.

My 2c worth,

Todd

[Ace009]

Hm. That helps a bit - but I'm not sure it's the best approach to have a short story with so many footnotes or a technical glossary that is 20% of the entire combined length.

Hard SF stories do sometimes come with glossaries and technical appendices and such. But I've only every seen them in full length novels - maybe a novella (but that's rare).

I'd suggest that it would still work better to try to get work in as many definitions and such into the story itself - particularly if you're aiming for this to be published in something like Analog.

My 2c worth,

Todd

Oh. Noted. And I actually fixed a few errors in there when I placed the revised version in here, all minor.

[Drashner1]

I'd suggest that we worry about footnotes and such later.

As a starting point, I think a bit of the 'introductory text from a fictional book' would be a good starting point for the story.

To get that started, could you give me a short summary of the background of this story? Specifically, who are the major players? Why are they having a war? You mention 'rebels' at some points in the story, but it's not clear who they are or what they are rebelling against. Also, it appears that your main characters and forces have some kind of Russian background - how did that come about in the Jupiter system?

This doesn't need to be formally written up, just a quick explanation in your own words about this background info. That will help me get an idea of what is going on here and I can then offer suggestions for the intro piece and other bits.

Thanks!

Todd