09-22-2014, 06:17 AM
@kch49er:
1. They convert resources into waste (turning raw materials into goods that are eventually disposed)
2. They work against natural processes (e.g feeding cows corn)
3. They require complex tech and processes (e.g industrial agriculture's dependence on the Haber-Bosch process to produce nitrogen fertilizer)
4.They pollute the environment in which they live, that is: In a finite environment, the more of a nonrenewable resource you extract, the more energy and raw materials you have to invest in order to extract the remaining resource, and the more of a persistent pollutant you dump into the environment, the more energy and raw materials you have to invest in order to keep the pollutant from interfering with economic activities.
Quote:If we are past the point that its possibile why is Iceland in the psotion it is in? Early enough investment? Fortunate geography/population density? Or did I miss something?Most likely,it's the fact that Iceland's sitting on a volcanic hotspot, combined with smart decision-making on how to use the geothermal energy that was made before conventional oil peaked in 2005.
Quote:I guess the critical thing is the food. I'm reminded of the view of the dark ages despite the east flourishingMost of the peripheries will indeed flourish during the next dark age, using the tech you've described and then some.
Quote:social disruption which is inevetiable would lead to drastically reduced living standards, a shift sure but does that reduce living standards?I misphrased. Actually, it's going to be the general decrease in energy consumption due to increased prices due to the decreased amt. of fossil fuels produced that'll drive living standards down in today's industrialized countries. This will result in less use of electricity and less use of cars.
Quote:but I dont follow that an industrial civilisation is unsustainableThey're unsustainable because :
1. They convert resources into waste (turning raw materials into goods that are eventually disposed)
2. They work against natural processes (e.g feeding cows corn)
3. They require complex tech and processes (e.g industrial agriculture's dependence on the Haber-Bosch process to produce nitrogen fertilizer)
4.They pollute the environment in which they live, that is: In a finite environment, the more of a nonrenewable resource you extract, the more energy and raw materials you have to invest in order to extract the remaining resource, and the more of a persistent pollutant you dump into the environment, the more energy and raw materials you have to invest in order to keep the pollutant from interfering with economic activities.