09-21-2014, 10:16 PM
Thanks for the split, I had some thoughts both sides, but I waited to make it clearer. 
Iceland is an interesting case study,they have a couple of advantages, geothermal energy is plentiful and 24/7 but mainly thermal and they are a smaller country, however with the salts mentioned earlier solar thermal is approching comparable levels.
I belive there around 85% renewable energy mainly geothermal and hydro, the interesting part is they tend to use the heat directly for space heating or industrial process thus reducing the electricty demand and avoiding converting use. While hydro makes a good peaker power plant(I'll have to find it but I think it was also an Icelandic article I read about 'Hydro batttery' essentially using wind turbines to drive archimedie screws to raise water above a dam which can then be opened during demand to drive the dam turbines. Which would work with other renewables. A dam with electirc pumps or any other storage unit could also buy elecctricty off-peak and sell it off peak, essentially creating energy futures(I think it was in the Economist now I think of it. Allowing renwable companies to not worry about storage, something a goverment could build as a national storage faciltiy I suppose. I understand Iceland's big problem at the minute is transport though the smaller size and the higher local density is making electric cars more attractive to Iceland, they looking at at the moment I understand, though the whole finaical crisis messed that up.
The US
potentialy has large Geothermal reources and large soalr insulation,
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...map_US.png
it looks to me if I'm right with the states like Arizona in particular and some of the area in nearby states are particualry good places for high temprature energy industry. E.g
aluminium recycling seems a good option,since it mostly determined by energy cost. Use solar thermal when availble and switch to geothermal when not, selling the excess perhaps, or just use geothermal all the time.
It's of course much easier to store work such as recycled aluminium cans than heat or electric energy so changing our system of delivery makes a lot of sense., Iceland imports bauxite and exports aluminium instead of exporting electricity which could be a viable strategy for the US between the 50 states.
Personally ammonia seems like a better solution than hydrogen for liqud fuel, especially if used in diseal generators rather than directly in vechicles.
I agree on district heat and industrial heat process too, though there is some inital small scale work (mainly hot water heating), at least this side of the pond, the Germans are major producers of this sort of system too on.
http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2011/07/s...ories.html is interesting.
Hwoever look at the Solar fire p32
http://www.gosol.org/Technology
Combine this with a salt storage system for interruptions and you get a renewable energy system that can produce more renewable energy systems. To create a suitable high temp reciver, you might use geothermal power or trough-type solar with heat exchangers I guess. Or possibly burn biomass, which should be able to fit into the steel making process being mostly carbon. As the article points out it could even be scavenged only a small amount is needed which means we can use the embodied already created perhaps when we were before peak energy.
After all reusing pre-made stones and bricks is nothing new.
I actually think this could be one of the drivers for colonisation of the oceans, it would be far cheaper, than space colonisation, international water near the equator has plenty of sunlight and room so low density is not a problem,nor is there a long dark winter for the resdients, air is freely availble. water is plentiful for low temp storage and reflectors can be made light enough to float. Room on a ship might at first seem crowded, however later on there are very large crruise ships of course and a fleet would be possibile, later floating structures and the like could make it seem much better,and there are people living happily on small islands) and of course oil platforms are very small yet people live there for long periods. A transalantic flight would be a lot cheaper than an orbital one
A suitably flagged fleet of ships fits into the law and allows nations to control them or companies to select the best.
Hydrogen is availble though I think Ammonia is better storage Nitrogen is availble from the air. and ammonia can be compressed, the natural gas industry's Experience with offshore refining would be important. Heavy goods such as salts can be carried across the ocean (other than finance the missing parts of the puzzle is probaly materials for a high temprature process and insulators for a molten salt storage that can still float. we tend to use the ground as an insulator for salt systems I belive) The ammonia can then be transported and used generators and for fertilisers.
Iceland is an interesting case study,they have a couple of advantages, geothermal energy is plentiful and 24/7 but mainly thermal and they are a smaller country, however with the salts mentioned earlier solar thermal is approching comparable levels.
I belive there around 85% renewable energy mainly geothermal and hydro, the interesting part is they tend to use the heat directly for space heating or industrial process thus reducing the electricty demand and avoiding converting use. While hydro makes a good peaker power plant(I'll have to find it but I think it was also an Icelandic article I read about 'Hydro batttery' essentially using wind turbines to drive archimedie screws to raise water above a dam which can then be opened during demand to drive the dam turbines. Which would work with other renewables. A dam with electirc pumps or any other storage unit could also buy elecctricty off-peak and sell it off peak, essentially creating energy futures(I think it was in the Economist now I think of it. Allowing renwable companies to not worry about storage, something a goverment could build as a national storage faciltiy I suppose. I understand Iceland's big problem at the minute is transport though the smaller size and the higher local density is making electric cars more attractive to Iceland, they looking at at the moment I understand, though the whole finaical crisis messed that up.
The US
potentialy has large Geothermal reources and large soalr insulation,
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...map_US.png
it looks to me if I'm right with the states like Arizona in particular and some of the area in nearby states are particualry good places for high temprature energy industry. E.g
aluminium recycling seems a good option,since it mostly determined by energy cost. Use solar thermal when availble and switch to geothermal when not, selling the excess perhaps, or just use geothermal all the time.
It's of course much easier to store work such as recycled aluminium cans than heat or electric energy so changing our system of delivery makes a lot of sense., Iceland imports bauxite and exports aluminium instead of exporting electricity which could be a viable strategy for the US between the 50 states.
Personally ammonia seems like a better solution than hydrogen for liqud fuel, especially if used in diseal generators rather than directly in vechicles.
I agree on district heat and industrial heat process too, though there is some inital small scale work (mainly hot water heating), at least this side of the pond, the Germans are major producers of this sort of system too on.
http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2011/07/s...ories.html is interesting.
Hwoever look at the Solar fire p32
Quote:The machine can deliver up to 15 kW and can reach a focal temperature of 700 °C (1,292 °F), enough to melt (and thus recycle) aluminum, the material that is used to make its reflectors. This means that you could use a Solar Fire P32 to make another Solar Fire P32. Or almost. The receiver and the supporting structure are made of steel, which requires a higher melting temperature to recycle. However, the structure could as well be made of wood, basketry or aluminum, and the steel receiver could easily be scavenged material.
http://www.gosol.org/Technology
Combine this with a salt storage system for interruptions and you get a renewable energy system that can produce more renewable energy systems. To create a suitable high temp reciver, you might use geothermal power or trough-type solar with heat exchangers I guess. Or possibly burn biomass, which should be able to fit into the steel making process being mostly carbon. As the article points out it could even be scavenged only a small amount is needed which means we can use the embodied already created perhaps when we were before peak energy.
After all reusing pre-made stones and bricks is nothing new.
I actually think this could be one of the drivers for colonisation of the oceans, it would be far cheaper, than space colonisation, international water near the equator has plenty of sunlight and room so low density is not a problem,nor is there a long dark winter for the resdients, air is freely availble. water is plentiful for low temp storage and reflectors can be made light enough to float. Room on a ship might at first seem crowded, however later on there are very large crruise ships of course and a fleet would be possibile, later floating structures and the like could make it seem much better,and there are people living happily on small islands) and of course oil platforms are very small yet people live there for long periods. A transalantic flight would be a lot cheaper than an orbital one
A suitably flagged fleet of ships fits into the law and allows nations to control them or companies to select the best.
Hydrogen is availble though I think Ammonia is better storage Nitrogen is availble from the air. and ammonia can be compressed, the natural gas industry's Experience with offshore refining would be important. Heavy goods such as salts can be carried across the ocean (other than finance the missing parts of the puzzle is probaly materials for a high temprature process and insulators for a molten salt storage that can still float. we tend to use the ground as an insulator for salt systems I belive) The ammonia can then be transported and used generators and for fertilisers.