Libertarianism, Wiccans and the freeish market

[kch49er]

I've realised a lot of my dislike for Libertarianism comes from encoutering so called free marketers, who the Libertarians may not even count.

I'd put those who opposed the 1833 factory act as Libertarian. After all restricting ten year olds from working more than nine hours a day is goverment interference right?

If you'r against child labour then your for goverment regulation in at least some form right?

(Before you think I'm ganging up on your philosphiiy, I'm sure you can make equally valid points about the danger of communisim,democracy,socialism)

Magic is not the right word. The basic logic is that letting things play out in a free market works out better than trying to control things via an abundance of one-size-fits-all government policies that always have unintended consequences, which not uncommonly serve to make the issue in question worse or create other problems (a transap might be different, if it's motivations were right). Allow me one real-world example to illustrate.

Better for whom? Why wouldn't a free market system cause unintened consquences?

High Minimum Wages: The idea is to help workers make a living. Here's are the problems. Money doesn't grow on trees, so businesses will have to make up for that somewhere. Either they'll hire fewer people, cut people's hours, raise their prices or even lower quality of whatever they make or do. Worst case, they can't afford to operate at all and they sink. On a large scale, if many businesses raise their prices, that basically causes inflation, so the raise may well not even do anybody any good. Also, low-wage jobs are low-wage because they're relatively unskilled and therefore can be done by almost anybody, such as teenagers and college students looking for summer work, or someone merely trying to supplement their household income, not necessarily people trying to make an independent living on that one job. Mandating a high wage prices such people out. It also has an effect on previously higher-paying jobs. My job for instances, pays a bit under the $15/hr living wage often talked about (I'm a Lab Tech II). If my state did that living wage, could my company maintain low turnover if they they raised us just enough to meet that, so that we're paid the same as the burger flippers across the street? Doubtful, at least not without downsizing us. My, and other jobs, would also need a raise to keep employees feeling they're paid well, or else they'll leave as soon as they find someone who can foot that bill. Same applies to next bracket up and so on, to lessening degrees. If only for my own job security, I really, really hope my state never passes a living wage law.

The minimum wage doesn't have to be provided by a business. Ration systems, goverment monthly income etc could also allow this.

Presumbaly then you'd be OK with a large number of immigrants entering the country(wouldn't want to interfere with the fre emovement of people in the market, would we?) Your company could then hire them at $1 a day( don't want to interfere with their minimum wage) You'd be ok to take that pay or job with similar wage?)

Again, a properly motivated Transapient would do as good or better job as a free market, they are after all incredibly smart. The only question really is how much would this abridge freedom, as it would require nudging or coercing people in certain directions, and how many would accept it? Some would, and they'd stay. Others would not accept it, they'd leave (assuming freedom of movement). Notice the free market solution to this one question, a.k.a. personal choice, not gov't policy.

I'd say a transap could quite easily hide it's interference from the fre market so it's not really freedom of choice.

Rynn - I agree that most humans will be good to one another if not provoked. But it only takes a tiny proportion of troublemakers.

The Wiccan principle has been posted earlier in the thread, but broadly speaking it's exemplified by the central philosophy as stated by many Wiccans: "An ye harm none, do as thou wilt."

BTW, I am fully aware that modern paganism, particularly Wicca, is largely an invention, with many deliberate archaisms such as the saying above, and isn't particularly faithful to ancient pagan traditions. Which is completely irrelevant to my point.

It's a nice idea, but of course this gets thorny. Define Harm. Is turning me down for a bank loan harming me? Different groups will come out on different sides of the equation.