Copyright question- I hope this isn't as thorny as it feels...

[Tangle10]

Hello. I've lurked the EG for a good few years now, and am voraciously reading it again as of a few weeks ago. Apologies if I'm in the wrong subforum- I figured this was too non-simple a question for the introductory forum.

This is an odd question, and I really hope it doesn't come off as derisive. I have a frankly very self-indulgent idea, one which I believe in its current state would not be acceptable on the EG (too similar to the archetype of 'overambitious newbie project that doesn't quite fit and promises to consume too much of other people's time'), though of course I personally like it. If I were to host a writeup of this idea on a personal website, what connection to Orion's Arm itself would be permissible? 


I had considered the concept of copying or mimicking the Encyclopedia Galactica's CSS and inserting a header of some sort to disclaim that it merely borrows stylings and concepts from Orion's Arm, but I suspect that's still too close to copyright infringement and I would much rather keep the idea as notes on my computer than as a spiffy but copyright-infringing writeup. If mimicking the EG is not permissible, is the writeup still permissible to host myself- if it mentioned, for instance, the Carina Rush in specifics; would that also not be permissible? My read of the terms and conditions suggests neither would be permissible, but I figured it would be beneficial to ask. Finally, if I made Orion's Arm-related references in the text nonspecific, would that be a good idea or would it simply be underhanded covering-up? I am unsure of the etiquette of this.

I am, of course, totally fine with simply not publishing my idea at all if none of these are acceptable- either way, I'd certainly like to contribute some much more level-headed ideas (or help with other's!) to the EG and keep this separate.

Cheers!

[Drashner1]

Hi - Welcome to the Forums!

I'm not entirely clear on what you're requesting/suggesting here so please consider this answer to be preliminary and subject to change as we learn more about what you're wanting to do.

If you are wanting to write up something for your own setting/project that includes concepts and/or terms from the OA universe, we have an attribution requirement/process that would most likely apply. Basically, you would have to include a statement somewhere that gives credit to the OAUP/OA setting for the relevant concepts/terms. Details on what that would look like would be something to discuss.

If you are wanting to write up something for the OA project/setting, but want to host it on your own computer/system while making it look like it is part of the EG that would not be acceptable.

If you are wanting to write up something for the OA project/setting, but want to host it as a Google Doc or the like on your computer/system and have links from the EG/OA website to it, that would not be acceptable.

If you are wanting to do something else that is totally different or partly different and I've misunderstood what you're asking, please say so and explain your idea further so we can properly consider it and how/if it might work with OA.

It would also help to have some idea of what you actually want to write up as an 'overambitious newbie project...etc.' so we can better judge for ourselves whether it is something we would be willing to help you attempt as a contribution to the setting (if that is the goal here).

Hope this helps,

Todd

Administrator - Orion's Arm Universe Project

[Tangle10]

Hi - Welcome to the Forums!

I'm not entirely clear on what you're requesting/suggesting here so please consider this answer to be preliminary and subject to change as we learn more about what you're wanting to do.

If you are wanting to write up something for your own setting/project that includes concepts and/or terms from the OA universe, we have an attribution requirement/process that would most likely apply. Basically, you would have to include a statement somewhere that gives credit to the OAUP/OA setting for the relevant concepts/terms. Details on what that would look like would be something to discuss.

If you are wanting to write up something for the OA project/setting, but want to host it on your own computer/system while making it look like it is part of the EG that would not be acceptable.

If you are wanting to write up something for the OA project/setting, but want to host it as a Google Doc or the like on your computer/system and have links from the EG/OA website to it, that would not be acceptable.

If you are wanting to do something else that is totally different or partly different and I've misunderstood what you're asking, please say so and explain your idea further so we can properly consider it and how/if it might work with OA.

It would also help to have some idea of what you actually want to write up as an 'overambitious newbie project...etc.' so we can better judge for ourselves whether it is something we would be willing to help you attempt as a contribution to the setting (if that is the goal here).

Hope this helps,

Todd

Administrator - Orion's Arm Universe Project

Thanks for your quick reply, it helped a lot- apologies for the confusion, as well; I have a bit of a bad habit of hedging my bets out of a fear of causing offense and that can sometimes get in the way of being clear.

Specifically, and with your responses in mind, what I'm asking whether it's permissible is (...apologies if my list format is itself confusing, I understand things best in that way but others might not):
- a self-hosted page, whether a google doc or a personal website page
- of an article in the style of but not entirely fitting Orion's Arm, probably plaintext or my own unique CSS styling
- in the Orion's Arm setting, or one very much like it, or an 'anonymized' setting (like published SCP Foundation writing, although I understand the SCP Foundation has a very different copyright paradigm)
- with a disclaimer to promote understanding of the fact that this is effectively a fanfic that borrows ideas from Orion's Arm, and a link to OA but not from OA to the website

Reevaluating the concept, I think there are definitely parts that could be reworked to actually fit in the EG- I've been fiddling with the idea of some early ahuman AIs stopping somewhere very far away, leaving later to avoid being caught up in the wave of Terragen expansion and leaving behind their 'toys' and perhaps some lesser intelligences; and that remnant being found much later by Terragens in the Periphery. I think it'd help flesh out the idea of the Light Speed Frontier.

That's the part of the idea that's probably fitting- the rest is an open cluster-spanning mini-empire in the early stages of forming a cluster brain with high archailect interest in modosophonts, which as I understand it is ground already well-tread by the Archosaurian Empire and to a lesser extent the Red Star 'M'Pire.

[Worldtree]

Reevaluating the concept, I think there are definitely parts that could be reworked to actually fit in the EG- I've been fiddling with the idea of some early ahuman AIs stopping somewhere very far away, leaving later to avoid being caught up in the wave of Terragen expansion and leaving behind their 'toys' and perhaps some lesser intelligences; and that remnant being found much later by Terragens in the Periphery. I think it'd help flesh out the idea of the Light Speed Frontier.

That's the part of the idea that's probably fitting- the rest is an open cluster-spanning mini-empire in the early stages of forming a cluster brain with high archailect interest in modosophonts, which as I understand it is ground already well-tread by the Archosaurian Empire and to a lesser extent the Red Star 'M'Pire.

that "reworked idea" sounds fine to be in the setting...depending on timelines.
what was the original idea?

why not just write this as part of the OA setting ?

i'm not seeing what (in-setting/canon) reasons are preventing you from just making it part of the OA setting?

is the issue that you want some control over the idea that you don't think we're going to offer?

[Tangle10]

[snip of my own quote]

that "reworked idea" sounds fine to be in the setting...depending on timelines.
what was the original idea?

why not just write this as part of the OA setting ?

i'm not seeing what (in-setting/canon) reasons are preventing you from just making it part of the OA setting?

is the issue that you want some control over the idea that you don't think we're going to offer?

The core reason that I wouldn't want the idea as a whole to be part of OA proper, rather than the understood-as-not-necessarilly-'canon' separate thing I'm hoping for, is just because the details of the idea which I've refrained from elaborating upon are very self-indulgent, which is somewhat embarrassing to me and if included I worry would make the concept feel unserious. 

I wouldn't want the parts of the idea that are just me noodling around and having fun making things that only appeal to me to be a component of the EG, if that makes sense? 

The stuff on the guide to EG submissions says that an idea being included just because it's 'cool' is an insufficient justification, and the details I'm reticent to mention do include a good few ideas included just because I like them and think they're cool; which is a major part of why I didn't think any of the idea was fitting for an actual EG article at first.

[Worldtree]

ok - sometimes i want to delete that sentence because i disagree with it, and think it's not helpful to say that as an introduction to new folks who let it limit their brainstorms..

half the premises in OA are written because some of us thought they're cool (Giant empire of Cyborg Dinosaurs in Space!). There's almost always some kind of more elaborate justification than that, and yes everything is supposedly *possible* according to our current understanding of physics.
I don't even know how many self-inserts exist in the setting, especially from early contributions.

but i'd say tell us this self indulgent idea, if you're comfortable and let others judge if it's actually inappropriate

Todd's outlines of what's allowable is true... but i think the what's appropriate is all about implementation, to be honest..

not appropriate:
"and then the populations of the Vorzan orbital swarm fought a space battle over territory using giant robots using magmatter swords"

probably appropriate:
"In 6092 AT the populations of the Vorzan orbital swarm voted to use their extra automated industrial capacity to build giant mecha robots for a sports event. The popularity of the broadcasts even convinced a S3 to gift the sports league with swords made from exotic matter."

[Worldtree]

or you could just write up your self indulgent idea for yourself , format it however you want so long as it doesn't look like the EG and... not use OA terminology? just use generic words or make up your own?

"And then Tangle10's self insert character uploaded their mind into the giant anime mecha which had been gifted to them by the T-rex-themed Quantum-Moons (god-like AI superintelligences) and they high fived because it was so awesome. Totally-not-Tangle10 used their new anime mecha body to lead the armies of sentient dinosaur cyborgs to victory and surrounded themselves with hot (insert partner of your preferred gender(s))"

or whatever

[Tangle10]

ok - sometimes i want to delete that sentence because i disagree with it, and think it's not helpful to say that as an introduction to new folks who let it limit their brainstorms..

half the premises in OA are written because some of us thought they're cool (Giant empire of Cyborg Dinosaurs in  Space!). There's almost always some kind of more elaborate justification than that, and yes everything is supposedly *possible* according to our current understanding of physics.
I don't even know how many self-inserts exist in the setting, especially from early contributions.

but i'd say tell us this self indulgent idea, if you're comfortable and let others judge if it's actually inappropriate

Todd's outlines of what's allowable is true... but i think the what's appropriate is all about implementation, to be honest..

not appropriate:
"and then the populations of the Vorzan orbital swarm fought a space battle over territory using giant robots using magmatter swords"

probably appropriate:
"In 6092 AT the populations of the Vorzan orbital swarm voted to use their extra automated industrial capacity to build giant mecha robots for a sports event. The popularity of the broadcasts even convinced a S3 to gift the sports league with swords made from exotic matter."

or you could just write up your self indulgent idea for yourself , format it however you want so long as it doesn't look like the EG and... not use OA terminology? just use generic words or make up your own?

"And then Tangle10's self insert character uploaded their mind into the giant anime mecha which had been gifted to them by the T-rex-themed Quantum-Moons (god-like AI superintelligences) and they high fived because it was so awesome. Totally-not-Tangle10 used their new anime mecha body to lead the armies of sentient dinosaur cyborgs to victory and surrounded themselves with hot (insert partner of your preferred gender(s))"

or whatever

Fair enough! To both, haha.

The self-indulgence is really just a high concentration of 'things specifically from OA I find cool'. That's why I've been saying it'd be a bit like a fanfic- though the idea of genericizing it is certainly something I've considered, I was worried it'd be seen as dishonest (it felt like I'd be lifting ideas from OA and pretending they're something else by changing a few specifics)....

The original spitballing I was doing with a friend when I figured the closest this would come to OA proper was as a fun little idea on my computer that would be explicitly tied to OA but not shared included a few things I find likely beyond the pale or at least requiring revision:

- the presence of both a Nekology branch and a derived branch of the Cybyota, which I feel beggars belief and would be better-served by choosing one at most if not discarding the idea of including either of them entirely, or replacing one/both with a more conventional infrastructure set up by the "leaver" ahuman AIs.

- a fairly advanced wormhole network derived from either study of or interaction with the ahuman Taurus Nexus ais, penetrating a notable portion of the region- more likely, I feel, is an analog to or outgrowth of the lightways and beamrider network; especially as in an open cluster distances between stars are relatively small.

- a coordinating AI of roughly low archailect class, derived from an early interstellar mission ai that untethered itself from humanity when news of the technocalypse reached it; which arrived ~several hundred years before other Terragens. This might be better as a visiting AI more fully integrated with the Terragen sphere, perhaps from a specific polity; or perhaps it evolved from the things the "leaver" ahuman AIs left behind.

- the AI having an extremely large variety and number of avatars, to the point that Terragen visitors would initially consider it its own small but diverse polity- I figured this would be rationalized by the coordinating AI still having the influence from the caretaker-like ahuman AIs, or perhaps as an attempt to understand itself due to a slightly botched transcension?

Otherwise, I'm starting to think this idea is a lot more feasible as an actual part of the EG than I thought at first. I hope I can make it fit!

[Worldtree]

Otherwise, I'm starting to think this idea is a lot more feasible as an actual part of the EG than I thought at first. I hope I can make it fit!

yeah all that sounds pretty reasonable addition as a normal article (... or fiction story!) with a few minor adjustments

just pitch this as a normal EG article  on the 'Encyclopedia Galactica articles" forum if you're open to that

[Tangle10]

Otherwise, I'm starting to think this idea is a lot more feasible as an actual part of the EG than I thought at first. I hope I can make it fit!

yeah all that sounds pretty reasonable addition as a normal article (... or fiction story!) with a few minor adjustments

just pitch this as a normal EG article  on the 'Encyclopedia Galactica articles" forum if you're open to that

Alright! I'll get to work on going through my notes and making something fully presentable, then.