A Middle Tech Society Without Access to the Net

[Vaktus]

Let's say that there was a society with a tech level around the information age, but they have forgone the internet for what ever reason. How would that society progress in technology and the societal ramifications from that? 

And tying this to OA, could there exist a middle tech society that has gotten rid of access to the net? perhaps for some cultural or religious reasons?

look forward to your thoughts.

[Drashner1]

I think it would depend on what form the refusal to use an internet took. A refusal to use any form of electronic signalling or digital computers could result in a very different society from one that had those, but just refused to use a network or the like.

I think the tech would be lower in many respects than ours because a lot of current tech advance comes from trying to figure out better ways of using the internet and computer networks. Also, the internet allows instant communication and increased collaboration among widely separated people, which can drive advances. If they don't use an internet, then that drive probably doesn't happen either.

Just some initial thoughts,

Todd

[Vaktus]

I would not imagine ALL electronic signalling, i.e. telephones, radio, telegraph. just the refusal to have computers communicate with each other and have the internet we have today, or the net of OA.

But I imagine a continuation of currently abandoned technology, such as portable DVD players, MP3 players, SD cards, and so on.  Computers would be more used for calculations than for many social activities as today. perhaps less political turmoil? No digital propaganda from partisan sites and news, or forums where people discuss/argue politics. I also think information about something can be hidden more easily without the internet since media companies could choose what you see and hear when watching TV, reading the newspaper, ect.

[selden]

I'm sure that there are Luddite polities scattered throughout the Terragen region, especially in the outer regions where influence by more technologically advanced societies can be minimized. Some might be self-imposed, based on philosophical memes, while others have their constraints enforced by autocratic rulers.

[Rynn]

And tying this to OA, could there exist a middle tech society that has gotten rid of access to the net? perhaps for some cultural or religious reasons?

It's totally conceivable that an OA society might set up a Lo Tek zone where certain classes of technology, infrastructure or social organisations are arbitrarily banned. No need to go so far as deep rooted ideological reasons or autocratic enforcement; this could just be done for fun and interest. The same way as there are all sorts of events IRL where we deliberately isolate ourselves from some of the technology available to us for fun (from camping to burning man to ashrams). I can't see how such a situation would arise other than this and be stable. Networking computers is just too simple and broad an idea with too many benefits not to occur at some point (and require extreme, contrived situations to prevent).

One thing I'm struggling with is exactly what would count here as "net access". Does a system of pneumatic tubes carrying hard drives rapidly between computers on request count? If that's not allowed (because it's essentially a high-latency network) then how about a human courier system? It's still a high-latency network but requires human labour to run. I hope this question makes sense, essentially I'm asking what exactly is the dividing line between "allowed" and "not allowed". Is it the bandwidth/latency of the network? The level of automation? The storage of data requiring a general-purpose computer to access?

In any case the rule I'm going to run with which I think covers the assumption of the scenario and is broad reaching enough is: Thou Shalt Not Transmit Stored Data On Demand. Following this rule...

Live transmissions of data (phone calls, radio, TV etc.) are acceptable, all those things still exist. Stored data transmissions are also allowed but as they cannot be done on demand it means that there must be a schedule/waiting list that is rigorously stuck too. For some things this results in scenarios that are very common, TV reverts back to being planned in advance with published guides and if you miss the transmission you're out of luck. However that rule also means that for a lot of information you will have to physically go and retrieve it yourself because the person with it is banned from sending it to you by any means. You won't be allowed to call up a book shop and order a book sent to your house (that's a slippery slope that leads to TCP/IP!), you will have to go to the shop. Similarly if you work in an office and call someone for a file they wont be able to read it to you or send it to you, just locate it and put it to one side for you to go get. This is a pretty bizarre set up but an interesting one to play around with, it feels like the terragen version of a scrapheap challenge (but at a much larger scale).

I'm quite busy this weekend so don't have time to post more but I have some thoughts on what this world might look like from the perspective of a student, a scholar, a politician, a businessmen, a homemaker. Will jot down notes and post when time permits.

[Vaktus]

To answer your question Rynn, you know how the internet is just a whole bunch of computer networks that are connected worldwide? in this hypothetical society, the computers would not be interconnected, and would just be "islands" of computing power, like computers of the 60s and earlier. They would be used for a more utilitarian purposes. this is what I mean by "no access". 

I'm asking this because I was thinking of making an EG article about a mid-tech( or lo tech) society who have forgone any access to a net connection. Though, I will need to think this over some more.

[Rynn]

Define “access”. Do pneumatic tubes carrying hard drives at high speed through pipes count? The meat of my question is what wording does one use for this prohibition that can’t be worked around in with relative ease?

EDIT: To clarify more I get what you’re trying to ask but if we’re trying to be realistic about it you’ll end up with a pseudo-internet anyway (there are far too many advantages to linking up those islands, even if just by data courier). If you’re trying to forbid anything of the sort then answering what society would be like is going to require more info to figure out properly. Without that the answer is just going to be contrived and obvious.

[Vaktus]

Define “access”. Do pneumatic tubes carrying hard drives at high speed through pipes count? The meat of my question is what wording does one use for this prohibition that can’t be worked around in with relative ease?

EDIT: To clarify more I get what you’re trying to ask but if we’re trying to be realistic about it you’ll end up with a pseudo-internet anyway (there are far too many advantages to linking up those islands, even if just by data courier). If you’re trying to forbid anything of the sort then answering what society would be like is going to require more info to figure out properly. Without that the answer is just going to be contrived and obvious.

I would not be strictly against some form of pseudo-internet, and it would be an interesting thought experiment on how a society would overcome that limitation. So, pneumatic tubes carrying hard drives at high speed through pipes it not out of the question.

But, if a society where NO system even approaching like that is feasible, what information do you need exactly?

if you mean what kind of data that can't be sent, I mean digital information, like bytes. Though, perhaps bytes could be transfered, just not through electrical signals. Or maybe a society that just doesn't transfer digital information at all, through any medium, for some strange reason. 

I hope I clarified this.

[terrafamilia]

So circuit switching connections between computers might be okay but packet switching would be forbidden?

How about something not quite so extreme? Perhaps an equivalent of ARPANET was developed but never went on to become an open internet. It would stay under strict government control with security being one of the main priorities rather than openness. This might put off the eventual development of a civilian internet but someone, somewhere will likely get the ball rolling.

Ciao,

Terrafamilia

[Cray]

If you're looking for examples, MANY "space opera" settings written prior to the 1990s rarely addressed large area computer networks. From Foster's Humanx setting to Asimov's Foundation to Pournelle's Codominium and Niven's Known Worlds, information technology often had mighty computers and AIs but scant vision of anything like the Internet.