New reader with a question about wormhole networks

[stevebowers]

We don't have a firm location for Frei. It is somewhere in the NoCoZo; most of the NoCoZo colonies are in the Vela/Carina/Centaurus region, although quite a few are elsewhere. Do we have any preference for its location, its distance from Sol and its date of establishment? I can supply some more details once these parameters are established.

[Drashner1]

The Makrania Orwoods article says that their founding entities arrived and got going in 3344AT. There were apparently already people there at the time, so the system would have been colonized before then. This would also place an upper bound on how far it is from Sol, both in absolute terms and (more roughly) in relation to the propulsion systems available and the extant of Terragen expansion.

My 2c worth,

Todd

[somnolent]

The colonization in 3344 was by AIs who emigrated from the Dionysan Erotocracy during its breakup. It seems that the Dionysan culture originated in Dionysos on Psi-5 Aurigae (http://orionsarm.com/eg-article/48f8b18aca613). According to Wikipedia that's in the Auriga constellation, which puts it near Perseus, Lynx and Gemini. That doesn't mean that Frei has to be in that area, but it might make sense if it were near there. The Frei page calls its star HJer.

The "locals" are described as technetes, a word that doesn't appear elsewhere in EG. From the description they are clearly sapients of some kind.

As long as we are filling in Frei history, the page says that the pair of ruling AIs leaves and a new pair takes over every 1000 years or so, with the first pair leaving sometime before 5783. That would make the current pair ( Ploutodotes and Euanthes) approximately the 6th, with of course much room for variation:

3000 - 5000?? Botryophoros and Polygethes
5000? - 6000? Sykrites and Kissokomes
6k - 7k ??
7k -8k ??
8k - 9k ??
9k? - 10k? (current) Ploutodotes and Euanthes

[somnolent]

Another quick thought about history: it seems Frei was linked to the NoCoZo after the Version wars, but it would probably have been affected in some way by later big events involving NoCoZo, like the Carina Rush and the Oracle War.

[somnolent]

Sorry to triple post, but I'm also thinking about how to insert baseline-ish humans into such a setting. What do you think about:

1) "Interact with 21st Century Humans" museum or theme park. Could be something wholesome and educational to drop the kids off at while you go gambling. Complete with "realistic Earth-village" habitat.

2) A fad begins among some class of transapients to raise small communities of humans, analogous to an ant-farm. The "caretaker" could visit or even live with the humans with some small part of its mind. It would be some sort of hobby or relaxation (would a higher-order mind relax?) for the advanced being.

In both of these situations the seeding humans would probably be created out of raw atoms, not "born". And they probably would have at least some hidden chip in the body somewhere to mark the humans as being in a contract with that particular entity, essentially a "property of X, do not damage" tag that higher organisms could identify.

[stevebowers]

Not a bad idea. The 'hidden chip' could be a short sequence in their DNA, or a dedicated plasmid marker in their cells somewhere.

Similar hobbyist baseline reserves are described elsewhere in the scenario; they obviously aren't all dedicated to 21st century humans; most replicate other times and places in history (such as classical-era Corona, Eden or Daffy). But readers of OA in the present are likely to be more familiar with reconstructions of Old Earth.

[somnolent]

Yeah, my goal at least for now is to be an author-insert of some kind in this universe, so that I can process it some small piece at a time. The universe is already complex and crazy enough. If I start thinking about "wait, would I even eat? Would I talk in words? Would I walk with feet?" etc. etc. I'll never get any further than my own body. So what I have in mind now is a baseline human created in Frei, who gets permission to explore the wormhole network and keeps some kind of journal. I'm assuming that by 10k AT most baseline humans exist at the whim of more powerful benevolent beings. This may become a problem for me if I travel outside of NoCoZo. My AI benefactor's influence may not extend beyond those bounds.

[Drashner1]

Sorry to triple post, but I'm also thinking about how to insert baseline-ish humans into such a setting. What do you think about:

Baseline humans are nearly extinct in the setting. Why would any significant number of them be living in an Old Core system that is also a major cosmopolitan center?

1) "Interact with 21st Century Humans" museum or theme park. Could be something wholesome and educational to drop the kids off at while you go gambling. Complete with "realistic Earth-village" habitat.

This could be done with bots or biobots - non-sophont machines, possibly made from flesh and blood. No need for baseline humans at all.

2) A fad begins among some class of transapients to raise small communities of humans, analogous to an ant-farm. The "caretaker" could visit or even live with the humans with some small part of its mind. It would be some sort of hobby or relaxation (would a higher-order mind relax?) for the advanced being.

In both of these situations the seeding humans would probably be created out of raw atoms, not "born". And they probably would have at least some hidden chip in the body somewhere to mark the humans as being in a contract with that particular entity, essentially a "property of X, do not damage" tag that higher organisms could identify.

Hrm. This scenario in particular starts to tap-dance close to slavery - which the sephirotics in general and the NoCoZo in particular generally disapprove of. Which means a higher level transapient will order them to cease and desist (which they will instantly do since there is absolutely no possibility of defiance or disobedience in any way, shape, or form when a higher S-level gives a direct order to a lower S-level), take the humans created away from them, and make the free sophonts of the Civilized Galaxy - and no, that the creating transapients 'own' them (or claim to) will mean nothing. They have no power to make a higher-S being do anything nor can they resist in any way.

It makes no difference how the beings in question are created - birth is a fairly meaningless concept given OA technology. Also, what's to stop these baseline humans from augmenting themselves just like any other sophont in the setting?

This starts to sound a bit contrived or reaching, really. Perhaps it would be better to put some thought into what near-baseline humans with 'standard' augmentations are like and work from there.

Todd

[Drashner1]

Going to bed last night, a notion occurred:

Instead of being elements in an exhibit, perhaps have a small community of baseline humans who willingly set themselves up as entertainers. Specifically, have them run/be a circus or traveling carnival type group.

There is a trope in fiction (not sure how accurate it is) that the performers in circuses and carnivals are something of a tight knit and semi-closed community, often with children growing up in it and then taking over their parents act or role when they get old enough.

Assuming some truth to this, the baselines could be a community of performers that has a strong cultural ethos of insularity and sticking to their community. In addition, the 'draw' of their act is based in part on the fact that baselines are doing the various tricks and illusions and such, without the advantage of either genetic enhancement or much internal tech. This could work to resist the tendency of the younger generation to get augments and otherwise become nearbaselines or the like. Although, some of that would likely still be happening at some level.

Such a community would need to be larger than a real world circus in order to provide a breeding pool and other community related things, but that would probably be doable.

Thoughts?

Todd

[somnolent]

I like the carnival troupe idea. In a way it might make for a more interesting story if a whole group of people is traveling along the wormhole network. It could also be one member from the group who decides not to be a performer and wants to travel further. Maybe my protagonist prides herself (emself?) on being able to survive without augmentation.

In my first scenario, what would happen if some powerful and rich being creates a baseline human, and says to them, "You are free to go anywhere and do whatever you want. But if you stay here, talk to the tourists, and don't augment yourself, I will feed you and pay you and protect you, and you can enjoy the orwoods in your off time." Would this be against NoCoZo rules?

I'm also curious about the story you described. If an AI creates a human as a slave/exhibit/curiousity, and some authority notices and takes the human away, what happens then? The human has no money and no skills in a very free-market stretch of the galaxy. Does NoCoZo have welfare? In Rynn's post he mentioned "living off of free basic products and charity". Different cultures may have very different approaches, but if a NoCoZo member world decides to let the homeless starve to death, would some administrator step in and forbid it?