New reader with a question about wormhole networks

[somnolent]

I just found out about this project and started reading Against a Diamond Sky and reading through the wiki. I enjoy the setting and it's a very cool project.

I'm very curious about the wormhole network. In particular I'm wondering how common wormholes are in the inner worlds. I made a map of the wormholes listed in the wormhole Gazetteer, I can attach it if anyone is curious. For example, Sol has two wormholes, and Tau Ceti has five. I'm guessing the list isn't comprehensive, but is it the right order of magnitude? Does Sol have only 2 wormholes, or 10, or 100?

There are some places where the gates listed don't match the gates listed on the system's page. I know I'm not allowed to edit the wiki, but I'd like to help clean up discrepancies where possible.

My map makes me want to dream up a travelogue of some baseline traveling along the large wormhole chain. It's a setting with a lot of possibilities

[Drashner1]

Hi there - Welcome to OA!!

I just found out about this project and started reading Against a Diamond Sky and reading through the wiki. I enjoy the setting and it's a very cool project.

Thanks! We've been working on OA for a long time and it's always nice to hear that people are enjoying what we're doing .

I'm very curious about the wormhole network. In particular I'm wondering how common wormholes are in the inner worlds. I made a map of the wormholes listed in the wormhole Gazetteer, I can attach it if anyone is curious. For example, Sol has two wormholes, and Tau Ceti has five. I'm guessing the list isn't comprehensive, but is it the right order of magnitude? Does Sol have only 2 wormholes, or 10, or 100?

Speaking from an editorial perspective, we've historically never really set a hard number for how many WHs are in the Inner Sphere. Usually people would/will just write up a system and put in however many wormholes happened to strike their fancy. At the same time, the total number of WHs in the setting (including the Inner Sphere) is relatively small compared to the total number of stars.

More recently, we've had a discussion about doing a bit of a redesign of the Nexus structure as well as more formally nailing down the number of wormhole gates in the setting. That will probably get incorporated later this year, time permitting. Although, as you'll see in the linked thread, we are still planning to include/incorporate the less structured WH configuration of the Inner Sphere.

Re your map - That's cool By all means, we're happy to take a look at it.

Re the wormholes described so far not being a comprehensive list - The short answer is 'yes and no'

More specifically, at this particular moment in the current incarnation of the setting, there are only two wormholes at Sol and five at Tau Ceti. But if someone were to write up a new solar system and wanted it to have a wormhole link to Tau Ceti, we'd most likely be fine with that. Sol would be a bit harder sell since it's a backwater and little visited, but if a sufficiently compelling case could be made, we'd likely go along with it. In either case, we'd basically retcon the setting, after which the revised number of wormhole gates would have 'always been how history worked out' by the OA 'Present Day' (10,600 years in the future, more or less).

Thinking about it, I actually want to say that there's a third WH leading into Sol from somewhere connected with the Institute for Primate Provolution, but I can't find the reference at the moment.

There are also likely wormholes mentioned in individual articles that aren't in the Gazetteer, although we do try to keep that current.

There are some places where the gates listed don't match the gates listed on the system's page. I know I'm not allowed to edit the wiki, but I'd like to help clean up discrepancies where possible.

Certainly! And thank you for the help If you could post a list or the instances where things aren't matching up, we can work on fixing it.

My map makes me want to dream up a travelogue of some baseline traveling along the large wormhole chain. It's a setting with a lot of possibilities

Very much so Part of the fun of OA (a big part for me) is thinking about life in the setting and discussing how things might look or work for the people living in the future we've imagined. We're always looking to have new folks join the conversation. Please feel free to post your thoughts about traveling the Nexus, or any other aspect of the setting you'd like to explore. Also any questions or concerns you might have about any aspect of the setting. And of course, if you have an idea for an article or two for the EG, we'd be happy to discuss them and see about helping you get them created and added to the OA universe.

Hope this helps, and once again - Welcome to OA

[stevebowers]

The Inners Sphere is likely to be a tangled mass of wormholes, distributed without ant real plan. Only in the Middle Regions will the true, tree-like or bush-like structure emerge. We recently decided that the Nexus is concentrated on a few nodal systems like Medius, which has numerous wormhole links leading to various locations; this would make the Nexus look a bit more like this map of internet connections

except that the length of each wormhole connection would be much more random in value.

[Rynn]

Welcome to the forums! We recently updated our page on the nexus with regards to configuration. Todd and Steve have covered all the bases but just FYI:
http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/48fba16bdae54

[somnolent]

Thanks, that link to the other thread about the nexus has a lot of interesting information. I understand the inner core is definitely supposed to be less structured, with wormholes added as the first AIs were figuring out how to build them.

Ok so the longest chain of gates on my map is:
To’u’l <-> Pen-Y-Ghent <-> Kepleria <-> Djed <-> Tau Ceti <-> Corona <-> Merrion <-> Alauda <-> Vast Endeavor (or Frei). Let's say my hypothetical baseline traveler wants to take a long vacation and visit these systems.

The gazetteer lists Escape Valve as a gate between To'u'l and Pen-Y-Ghent. Neither system page mentions this gate. To'u'l only mentions a gate to Morogai. Pen-Y-Ghent doesn't list any gates, but does mention To'ul'hs immigration, so it's safe to guess the gate exists.

The Kepleria page doesn't list any gates, it might be nice to add the gates in the gazetteer to that page (to Pen-Y-Ghent, Djed, and Himmelsschmiede).

The Tau Ceti page doesn't mention the gate to Corona, although it lists the other 4.

The Merrion page says "Several widely spaced wormholes connect Crossroad Central with the rest of the NoCoZo." Could maybe mention the gates to Corona and Alauda, I'm guessing there are others.

It's mentioned that eventually there will be wormholes to systems whose only function is to house a large hub with 100 or so other wormholes. I haven't seen any named examples of these, but there's a lot I haven't read. It would make sense for Djed, Merrion, and Fons Luminis to have wormholes leading to these hubs, since they are home worlds for their respective civilizations.

I'm imagining traveling to those super-hubs would be a bit like having a layover in an airport: you may have to change ships or wait for your ship to get clearance to travel through its wormhole, but it's either impossible or pointless to get out and "explore" those systems, since they would be filled with maintenance architecture and no-fly-zones. Maybe there is a city-ish thing in the hub providing some distraction & accommodation.

I'm going to keep reading, but I'm sure I'll be back with more questions!

[Rynn]

Not seeing any show stoppers with that a few general comments:

1) The lack of organisation/efficiency in the inner sphere is more likely because there wasn't as much cooperation when they were built, as opposed to the most efficient method not having been figured out.

2) The distances between wormholes is huge, at least 650AU (13x further than Pluto to the sun). "Layovers" likely aren't a thing, instead you'd just adjust your travel time between gates to fit with traffic control. Given beam riders likely litter relay systems it might not even be in your control

3) Historically we've treated the nexus as an apolitical project. Something that no one empire lays claim over, even the sections within their empire. Might be good to bear in mind.

[Drashner1]

Thanks, that link to the other thread about the nexus has a lot of interesting information. I understand the inner core is definitely supposed to be less structured, with wormholes added as the first AIs were figuring out how to build them.

Happy to help As Rynn indicates, the less organized layout of the Inner Sphere Nexus is likely to be retconned to be a result of the early archai not really cooperating in its creation. Speaking editorially, it's because we hadn't thought of a more organized structure for most of the OA project. We could retcon it into being more organized across the entire Inner Sphere, but I think we rather like the current structure of named wormhole gates and direct routes to various places that has evolved. Likely there will be a bit of tweaking before we're done, but overall, the Inner Sphere is likely to remain rather like the cosmic equivalent of a European 'Old City' with winding narrow roads and such.

The gazetteer lists Escape Valve as a gate between To'u'l and Pen-Y-Ghent. Neither system page mentions this gate. To'u'l only mentions a gate to Morogai. Pen-Y-Ghent doesn't list any gates, but does mention To'ul'hs immigration, so it's safe to guess the gate exists.

The Kepleria page doesn't list any gates, it might be nice to add the gates in the gazetteer to that page (to Pen-Y-Ghent, Djed, and Himmelsschmiede).

The Tau Ceti page doesn't mention the gate to Corona, although it lists the other 4.

The Merrion page says "Several widely spaced wormholes connect Crossroad Central with the rest of the NoCoZo." Could maybe mention the gates to Corona and Alauda, I'm guessing there are others.

All of these seem workable enough at first blush. We'll need to think about them in more depth just to be sure, but I'm not seeing any real showstoppers to making these changes off the top of my head.

It's mentioned that eventually there will be wormholes to systems whose only function is to house a large hub with 100 or so other wormholes. I haven't seen any named examples of these, but there's a lot I haven't read. It would make sense for Djed, Merrion, and Fons Luminis to have wormholes leading to these hubs, since they are home worlds for their respective civilizations.

Relay001 and its associated Relays are the closest thing to what we're heading toward at the moment. Djed has a link to Relay001, as do some other written up systems, and a few others are described as having links to other Relay system.

Then there is Aksijaha, which will need a few tweaks to fit in the redesigned Nexus, but is mostly fine as is.

I'm imagining traveling to those super-hubs would be a bit like having a layover in an airport: you may have to change ships or wait for your ship to get clearance to travel through its wormhole, but it's either impossible or pointless to get out and "explore" those systems, since they would be filled with maintenance architecture and no-fly-zones. Maybe there is a city-ish thing in the hub providing some distraction & accommodation.

I'm going to keep reading, but I'm sure I'll be back with more questions!

We used to describe wormhole travel as something like this. But, given the transit times involved, most travelers will be in stasis and moving far from any star or other visually interesting thing. Also, using grapeships, you could have individual modules (or 'grapes') flying around via halo drive tugs, each going to different destinations. For most people, wormhole travel might be like falling asleep in one place and waking up at destination, possibly months or years later. FedEx yourself around the galaxy - see the worlds!!

Todd

[somnolent]

More questions!

So I decided to start my reading adventure with Frei. Frei is a warm gas giant orbited by the Makrania Orwoods. It says the rings of this world have been converted into dyson trees. Does this mean that the dust and ice that make up the ring was converted into a habitat? Is it a ring-shaped structure orbiting the planet? Or lots of little structures orbiting in a ring?

Second question, it is easiest for me to imagine things from the perspective of someone as close to baseline as possible. Would a NoCoZo planet / orwood like Frei have something close to baseline humans, or humans with only "superficial" upgrades?

And a small discrepency/typo in the timeline: "Makrania Orwoods linked with a stargate to Graunstein - becomes a major resort and hedonics center." Occurs at both 3783 and 5783. 5783 is the date listed in the main Makrania Orwoods page, so I'm guessing the 3783 part is a typo. Graunstein isn't mentioned anywhere else on GE (yet).

[Rynn]

So I decided to start my reading adventure with Frei. Frei is a warm gas giant orbited by the Makrania Orwoods. It says the rings of this world have been converted into dyson trees. Does this mean that the dust and ice that make up the ring was converted into a habitat? Is it a ring-shaped structure orbiting the planet? Or lots of little structures orbiting in a ring?

Lots of structures orbiting in a ring, or "orbital band"

Second question, it is easiest for me to imagine things from the perspective of someone as close to baseline as possible. Would a NoCoZo planet / orwood like Frei have something close to baseline humans, or humans with only "superficial" upgrades?

Most places in the sephirotics are pretty cosmopolitan so finding baselines/nearbaselines is likely. Keep in mind though that the NoCoZo is very market oriented. The less you augment yourself the more likely you'll be living off of free basic products and charity, not to mention being pretty low in the reputation markets.

And a small discrepency/typo in the timeline: "Makrania Orwoods linked with a stargate to Graunstein - becomes a major resort and hedonics center." Occurs at both 3783 and 5783. 5783 is the date listed in the main Makrania Orwoods page, so I'm guessing the 3783 part is a typo. Graunstein isn't mentioned anywhere else on GE (yet).

Fixed. Thanks!

[Drashner1]

More questions!

So I decided to start my reading adventure with Frei. Frei is a warm gas giant orbited by the Makrania Orwoods. It says the rings of this world have been converted into dyson trees. Does this mean that the dust and ice that make up the ring was converted into a habitat? Is it a ring-shaped structure orbiting the planet? Or lots of little structures orbiting in a ring?

As Rynn says, the ring would consist of a large number of habitats, mostly dyson trees. Or possibly a mix of other habitats and clusters of dyson trees. Bear in mind that dyson trees can grow to be a 100km across or so. So, small in comparison to many other Terragen constructs, but quite large by our standards. And the Makrania Orwoods could encompass hundreds of them at least.

Second question, it is easiest for me to imagine things from the perspective of someone as close to baseline as possible. Would a NoCoZo planet / orwood like Frei have something close to baseline humans, or humans with only "superficial" upgrades?

Frei is an old system and the Orwoods and such have been around for around 7000 years. And, it's a major crossroads with lots of visitors. So, while there will probably be lots of nearbaseline humans (and a few baselines - they are rare in absolute numbers, which means very few are to be found in any given place, generally speaking). But there will also be lots and lots of other sophonts as well. Expect to see everything from provolved Aardvarks to cyborg Zebra-splices and everything in between. Humans who are part machine, giant sophont spiders looking for interspecies sex (and yes, OA tech allows one part to literally eat the other at the culmination of the act - and then they can share breakfast together afterward), dragons with a taste for poker, spacefaring dinosaurs who want to dance all night, etc. etc. Nearly all of them looking to have a good time (however they define that).

I'd suggest checking out our Sophonts pages. In a system like Frei, you're likely to encounter any or all of the beings we have listed and many more besides.

On a related note - Even 'minimal' upgrades by OA standards are going to result in people who are pretty much ageless and immortal, able to link their minds to computers and other people, able to rise from the dead, immune to all forms of disease and can regenerate limbs, and with the option of changing orientation, gender, species, or substrate with a level of effort ranging from what we put into changing our screensaver to remodeling a room in our house (depending on the type of change). Etc.

Hope this helps,

Todd