(02-08-2020, 11:41 AM)SolarRider Wrote: They don’t have a shared religion due to various religion and cults that are practiced in the Civ. As for a major religion, many Modosophonts do see the transaps/Archai as guardians of their civilized society but never revered as gods. They are the elite of their society, an example every Modosophont should follow. They are what Modosophont should strive for and many will try to seek Ascension from the Transap. Transaps see Archai in a similar fashion as well.

(02-08-2020, 11:41 AM)SolarRider Wrote: That why there many smaller policies across the Civ created by modosophonts and lower Transap because the Civ itself is sandbox and they want to achieve the same greatness as the major empires. Think of it as an mmo, where you have the noobs that will try to grind in order to be as good as the pro players. Inhabitants of this Civ will have that urge to grind for success. Ofc it doesn’t have to be carving an empire(many do end up failing) but it can also be minimal mundane thing like gaining a high position at a modo workplace.

(02-08-2020, 11:33 AM)Drashner1 Wrote:

(02-08-2020, 09:05 AM)SolarRider Wrote: As for where the civ is taking place, I envision it to be an island or a patch of terragenkind, away from the main sphere surrounded by uncolonized space but still near it to eventually reconnect with their long distant cousins. I am aware that there are isolated civilizations within the civilized galaxy, however i want to prevent any cultural or ideological memes from even slightly entering the civ. I feel like even if an archai were to go to extreme measures to isolate eir civ from it neighboring empires, one way or another, the memes from the outside civilized galaxy will still get in. However I am open on changing the setting for my civ as i do want them to have a history unique to the rest of the civilized galaxy. I might set them in the Periphery as colonization of the area is still ongoing.

So - just to we're clear here: How do you see your civ being documented in the Encyclopedia Galactica if they don't have any contact with Terragen civilization? The EG is the vehicle by which we describe the OA universe, and I don't think we would be open to any alternative 'source of truth' within the setting outside of stories in our fiction section.

Well eventually contacted with be made with the greater civilization, and the border will open. So, imagine those documenting EG now have access to the Civ and the Civ won’t be isolated anymore

(02-08-2020, 09:05 AM)SolarRider Wrote: Honestly I thought an S4 was able to break up into smaller pieces in order to travel from one place to another a bit faster. Thank you for bring up that information. I probably will downgrade the leader into a S3 Transap or like you said, a S3 scion with transavant spikes.

The idea has probably been discussed from time to time, but at this point the consensus is pretty firmly that self-ascended S4 wouldn't be mobile. An S4 created by an S5 or S6 mind as a servant or tool (or just because it felt like it) might be considerably smaller than an S4 that is the product of the normal chain of ascension/transcenion (for example S5 minds can create S3 minds less than 100m across (possibly hugely less)). But I don't get the sense that is what you're going for here.

I do want the leader to be able to ascend to an Archai once it reaches it destination.

(02-08-2020, 09:05 AM)SolarRider Wrote: The plan is for the civ to have their own history, politics, cultures, tech(or variants of existing ones) and memes w/o interference from outside influence. As isolates, they are unaware or vastly ignorant of the greater terragen civilization and many have grown to fear or even hate them because the past major transgressions that occurred in the civilized galaxy. The ruling Archai who although is distant with eir subjects, created this indifference and intolerant towards the greater terragen civ because E eirself hate them especially the dominant archailects for the atrocities they commit.

Hrm. I'm afraid I'm still not seeing the major differences from the Sephirotics here. All of the different Sephirotic empires are made up of millions of solar systems encompassing hundreds of thousands or millions of cultures, each with their own history and politics. While the overarching memetic of the ruling archailect does influence things (to one degree or another),  individual worlds, systems, or habs often have their own interpretation or spin on the overarching theme and may be quite different from each other. Technology is limited by the laws of physics so there is a limit to the amount of variation that is possible in that area.

Huh I see, when reading the profiles on the different Sephirotic Empires, I didn’t think there was such a massive amount of diversity within them. I’ll definitely check on them again and see if there is something I could add on top.

Since I'm assuming that disliking the Sephirotics is not the only unique thing about them, can you provide some specific examples of what you mean by this civilization having its own, presumably unique, elements in these areas? In what ways has this civilization evolved in a drastically different way from the main part of Terragen civilization? In what way is their culture(s) so alien from those of the Terragens?

That is a work in progress, I have yet to brainstorm ideas on what makes them truly alien of them.

Also, what 'major transgressions' and 'atrocities' are you referring to? If they haven't had any contact with each other for thousands of years, what are the sophonts of your civ basing their dislike on other than the meming of their ruling archailect?

The destruction of wormholes, leaving entire systems to die. The rogue autowars created by them wrecking havoc on unsuspected world, especially those without transaps that can protect. Blights and perversities that are preying on smaller civilizations. Their dislike come from the narrative created by the ruling Archai that the Sephirotic Archai are the boogieman that do what they want and don’t care if they end up destroying lower terragen life.

(02-08-2020, 09:05 AM)SolarRider Wrote: yeah it definitely is a major issue when creating this project, and I have difficulties coming up a solution or an explication as to how they manage to go so far in so little time or even got there before the greater civilization caught up to them. I don't mind setting the civ more closer to the greater sphere to accommodate for temporal and travel issues that make this scenario unlikely. Like I told Ryan I do want them to their own little island surrounded by a sea of uncolonized space. I also dont have a problem reducing the leader of the exodus fleet to a S3 instead of a S4 or higher.

A certain amount of uncolonized space may be doable for a time - but sooner or later it will probably start being colonized unless they make it clear they don't want that. There may be some treaty options that might play a role here.

Yes there will be treaty that creates a buffer between them and the rest of the civilized galaxy.

(02-08-2020, 09:05 AM)SolarRider Wrote: I will take it in to consideration most definitely. I never plan for the civ to be as powerful as the dominant S6 empires that already exist but i do want them strong enough to where no other empire wants to mess with it or will result in a very costly invasion and occupation if they do so. 

Hrm. This bit is a bit of an issue. Per our intertoposophic conflict guidelines, it is pretty much impossible for sophonts of a lower S-level to best a sophont of a higher S-level in any competition or conflict. When the difference is multiple S-levels the inability of the lower minds to prevail becomes total.

Put another way - All of the modosophonts, transapients and archai in the setting from S0 thru S5 could band together in a coordinated all out attack on a single S6 - and it could squash them as easily and as totally as you or I might step on an ant. Any individual transapient has virtually total power of life and death over all sophonts of a lower S-level.

Basically, there is no possible amount or combination of military force that this empire could create that would slow down even a single Sephirotic empire if it wanted to conquer or destroy it. As far as invasion being 'costly' - the invasion would take place with automated self-replicating weapons that have no sense of self-preservation or self in general (also no concept of mercy, pity, or compassion). If they wish, they can fill every world and habitat with guardwebs that immobilize anyone who attempts to resist, or infect the entire population with nanotech devices that grow control networks in their bodies that will allow the invaders to puppet everyone to do whatever the invaders desire. Or - if they want to go even further - they can reprogram every lower sophont into a happy and willing citizen of the invading empire - or a happy anything else the attacking archai desires.

The various lower level empires and civilizations and cultures in the OA universe exist because the highest archai want them to exist, or at least don't mind them existing. Issues of cost or power or consent of the governed don't really apply.

I remember reading that article because I was very interested in how transaps/archais conducted wars with each other. Ngl I kinda thought a group of S5s could takedown a whole S6 entity but I didn’t think S6s were that OP. Now I know thank you for that

(02-08-2020, 09:05 AM)SolarRider Wrote: I also do have some smaller projects in mind or other small subjects in OA that i would love to touch on

Cool! I look forward to seeing them

I plan to post them in a few weeks so stay tuned

(02-08-2020, 09:05 AM)SolarRider Wrote: Also sorry for my late response, I'm a pretty slow at typing and gathering my thoughts sometimes. I'm still learning how to the quote system in this forum. Any help on that will be well appreciated

No worries I don't actually use the quoting system per se, so I'm afraid I can't really help there. But I'm sure someone around here does and can chime in.

Todd

(02-08-2020, 12:24 PM)Madine Wrote: This feels a bit overwhelming, honestly. Your ideas, if fully developed could easily span five EG articles rather than one. That's mostly due to the content, but I will say that paragraph breaks would make your text more readable.

Sorry about that, I will do paragraph breaks for future post. As for the project, I’m starting to the crack and holes it despite being just a general concept, I’m instead focus more on smaller idea like for instance writing an empire within a system, part of NoCoZo or maybe subcultures of a Clade. I will search and see what is a good place to write about.

Thinking about the concepts more specifically, I should also point out that the residents of a single Sephirotic meta-empire like the Zoeific Biopolity, the NoCoZo, etc. are generally favorably disposed towards each other due to sharing values, narratives, and aesthetics. This is at a societal level, not an individual one of course, and cultural schisms can still happen especially outside the WH Nexus. However, your proposed civilization doesn't seem like a meta-empire so much as a collection of empires, many of which start from a background of disliking each other. How and why does the archai of this zone maintain control over such a assemblage (obviously E can exert fiat power to make everyone toe the line, but generally the archai that bother with modos at all are more subtle)

I definitely will the future. For the project I decided instead to make it a local empire rather than a collection of meta-empires with some ideas I present may needing more fleshing out or even scraped. This is like some people said way too much for someone starting out world-building so as of now I placing this project in the back burner until I have a better grasp of what I could come up with

(02-08-2020, 11:41 AM)SolarRider Wrote: They don’t have a shared religion due to various religion and cults that are practiced in the Civ. As for a major religion, many Modosophonts do see the transaps/Archai as guardians of their civilized society but never revered as gods. They are the elite of their society, an example every Modosophont should follow. They are what Modosophont should strive for and many will try to seek Ascension from the Transap. Transaps see Archai in a similar fashion as well.

This is already true across much of the Terragen Sphere. The forum discussions we've had regarding religion in OA have basically settled on a mixture of views, in keeping with our "diversity, diversity, diversity" standpoint. Some sophonts do not "worship" transapients at all. Many believe more or less what you describe, that archai are not supernatural per se, but are effectively godlike in wisdom and power and are thus sought out as protectors, mediators, and guides in manner analogous to polytheistic worship. Some Terragens do literally believe the archai to be manifestations or agents of whatever extrauniversal deity(s) they believe in.

Okay that good to know, I always thought the inhabitants of each Sephirotic empire have a uniformed way of thinking based on the philosophies, ideals and tenets of their host empire. I thought because of the cultural influence and ideology instilled by the ruling Archai that independent thought for modos and transaps is heavily restricted.

(02-08-2020, 11:41 AM)SolarRider Wrote: That why there many smaller policies across the Civ created by modosophonts and lower Transap because the Civ itself is sandbox and they want to achieve the same greatness as the major empires. Think of it as an mmo, where you have the noobs that will try to grind in order to be as good as the pro players. Inhabitants of this Civ will have that urge to grind for success. Ofc it doesn’t have to be carving an empire(many do end up failing) but it can also be minimal mundane thing like gaining a high position at a modo workplace.

I don't understand what is meant by "sandbox" here. Are you referring to the analogy that the Terragen Sphere itself is a playground or garden for S5-S6 archai to amuse themselves in while they attend to whatever "real" matters occupy their thoughts? Or is it meant to refer to a sandbox game like Simcity or the various Tycoon games?

In a way, both. The Archai play on their sandbox for enjoyment but the sandbox is independently developing itself as they view their “sim”. which I’m guessing applies for every Sephirotic empire

Still, I think there are a lot of interesting ideas here, like the idea of an apocalyptic cult obsessed with survival to the end of the universe. I look forward to seeing your ideas coming forward.

Thank you, I might develop that idea independently so we will have to see.

(02-08-2020, 01:01 PM)SolarRider Wrote:

Madine Wrote:This is already true across much of the Terragen Sphere. The forum discussions we've had regarding religion in OA have basically settled on a mixture of views, in keeping with our "diversity, diversity, diversity" standpoint. Some sophonts do not "worship" transapients at all. Many believe more or less what you describe, that archai are not supernatural per se, but are effectively godlike in wisdom and power and are thus sought out as protectors, mediators, and guides in manner analogous to polytheistic worship. Some Terragens do literally believe the archai to be manifestations or agents of whatever extrauniversal deity(s) they believe in.

Okay that good to know, I always thought the inhabitants of each Sephirotic empire have a uniformed way of thinking based on the philosophies, ideals and tenets of their host empire. I thought because of the cultural influence and ideology instilled by the ruling Archai that independent thought for modos and transaps is heavily restricted.

(02-08-2020, 12:32 PM)SolarRider Wrote: Well eventually contacted with be made with the greater civilization, and the border will open. So, imagine those documenting EG now have access to the Civ and the Civ won’t be isolated anymore

(02-08-2020, 09:05 AM)SolarRider Wrote: I do want the leader to be able to ascend to an Archai once it reaches it destination.

(02-08-2020, 09:05 AM)SolarRider Wrote: Huh I see, when reading the profiles on the different Sephirotic Empires, I didn’t think there was such a massive amount of diversity within them. I’ll definitely check on them again and see if there is something I could add on top.

(02-08-2020, 09:05 AM)SolarRider Wrote: That is a work in progress, I have yet to brainstorm ideas on what makes them truly alien of them.

(02-08-2020, 09:05 AM)SolarRider Wrote: The destruction of wormholes, leaving entire systems to die. The rogue autowars created by them wrecking havoc on unsuspected world, especially those without transaps that can protect. Blights and perversities that are preying on smaller civilizations. Their dislike come from the narrative created by the ruling Archai that the Sephirotic Archai are the boogieman that do what they want and don’t care if they end up destroying lower terragen life.

(02-08-2020, 01:01 PM)SolarRider Wrote: I definitely will the future. For the project I decided instead to make it a local empire rather than a collection of meta-empires with some ideas I present may needing more fleshing out or even scraped. This is like some people said way too much for someone starting out world-building so as of now I placing this project in the back burner until I have a better grasp of what I could come up with

(02-09-2020, 12:37 AM)Drashner1 Wrote: In all fairness, this may be an area we need to revisit and do some tweaking to to make sure this diversity of views is more clearly written down vs possibly being more implied than stated or even operating more as 'tribal knowledge' within the OA community.

Since the start of OA the intent has always been that each empire has a sort of overarching 'memetic' - the point of view of its ruling Archailect - but that there is great variation within each empire as to how that memetic is interpreted and lived. The analogy that was usually given was the concept of 'Western Civilization' vs how that concept is interpreted in different ways as you look at different 'Western' countries. Or the concept of Christianity compared to the many different denominations and sects that exist under the umbrella of the term. Multiplied by millions given the scale of the OA setting.

It should also be noted that the different empires vary in how they operate and how closely they may follow the ruling Archailect's take on things. The Negentropy Alliance and the Solar Dominion (although hugely diverse in the diversity of the internal variations and interpretations of their memetic) are more centrally controlled and probably a bit closer to the traditional SF trope of an interstellar empire. On the other end of the spectrum, the NoCoZo ruler(s) take an extremely hands off approach as a matter of policy and places like the MPA or the Sophic League are somewhere in the very broad middle.