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+--- Thread: Post scarcity economics fiction and non fiction (/showthread.php?tid=140)
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RE: Post scarcity economics fiction and non fiction - stevebowers - 06-11-2013
We already exist in a post-scarcity economy with respect to one commodity (and one commodity only, unless anyone can think of another). We have free access to molecular oxygen. Bear in mind that on every other world in the Solar System, and almost every other world in the universe, oxygen will have to be manufactured artificially. Bear in mind as well that molecular oxygen was once scarce, even on our world.
On Earth there is an abundance of oxygen, manufactured by self-replicating devices (plants) most of which existed in the past history of our planet and no longer exist. In order to have free access to oxygen on other worlds we would need to devise some sort of self-replicating manufactory that could do the job as cheaply as plants have done on Earth.
Once we have self-replicating manufactories of this sort we could conceivably have free access to a range of other commodities. The difference between commodities that can become free because of this sort of self-replicating manufacture, and other commodities which remain scarce, is the difference between goods that we will have to pay for, and those we won't.
Note that even in a post-scarcity society there are limits to growth; when a resource starts to become rare, because of excessive demand, then the economy transits back into a scarcity mode once again.
RE: Post scarcity economics fiction and non fiction - Rynn - 06-12-2013
Agreed on all points Steve. I really dislike the term "post-scarcity" because such a set up isn't possible and worse; isn't representative of the idea being conveyed. I much prefer a term such as post-labour economics because what we're essentially talking about is an economy in which automation becomes sophisticated enough to make human labour entirely unnecessary or negligible.
From that point we have a problem because our current economic systems work on the principle that the majority of people can accumulate wealth through labour, so without that we're left in a position where we don't have an effective and ethical system (possible exception would be a Keynesian capitalist economy) for people to accumulate wealth.
RE: Post scarcity economics fiction and non fiction - iancampbell - 06-13-2013
As has been noted by such people as Drexler, some things are intrinsically rare and are going to stay that way. An example is this: In a carbon-based nanotech age it might well be that computing devices are essentially free for the asking. However, if for some peculiar reason you want a hundred kilos of gold that's quite another matter.
OK, so some of the higher-tech polities in OA might be able to make gold to order. Then one runs into the requirement for energy to make the gold, as gold is on the slope of the binding-energy curve. In a case like that - iron would be the cheapest resource of all.
RE: Post scarcity economics fiction and non fiction - kch49er - 06-14-2013
I would say that true 'post scarcity' only occurs when an object is fungible. I can't have the same molecule of oxygen as you but that isn't a problem if we both have the same amount, Two 10km area patches of land could have very different values. So a 'true' post scarcity society could only be achived via uploading to a virch. One template of a lakeside is as real as another. Each resident might have an allotment of memory and processing power which could be endlessly recycled as different objects. One requirement might be that any created virch templates or physical real world objects are owned in common by the society.
I can imagine 10 billion or so aiods living comfortably on a large asteroid or perhaps small moon with a lot of bots to look after the physical structure. Perhaps the aoids take it in turn too provide supervision in the real world. Note this might have a small amount of labour but I don't think post-scarcity and post labour don't necessarily go hand in hand.
I also think 'post-scarcity' could be applied to situations where demand has reduced far below supply. A civ that has crashed to the tribal age might have plentiful supplies of germanium because they don't have the electronic demand for it. Or the population of a large planet kept at 10000 sophonts, etc.